Non mask wearers and “hard of thinking”

[2X4B523P]

After reading several threads on face mask since the 19th I have seen many posts where non maskers were referred to as being “hard of thinking” (along with being selfish). I have given thought to why I have decided not to wear a mask, see below, and I was wondering if those who refer to people as hard of thinking have actually given any thought themselves on the pros and cons of masks and came to their own conclusions?

It is known that mask use has a limited impact on transmission. From my own observations the sort of masks in common use have no effect whatsoever on preventing transmission from aerosols. They leak out around the sides of the mask and at the top, which prevented me wearing my glasses when using masks. If not a glasses wearer, anyone else can observe this for themselves by standing close to a mirror with a mask on and see the misting. I also wondered if a tight seal around the mask would help so I stood in front of a mirror and held the mask tight around my mouth and the vapour passed straight through. For those glasses users who didn't have the misting issue then there would have been a better gap elsewhere for the expelled air containing the moisture to escape from.

However masks do help to contain droplets, until evaporation takes over. This would depend on several factors including the time the mask was worn for, the ambient temperature, humidity levels and any movement of the air. Droplets are generated when talking, coughing or sneezing. These droplets fall to the ground within six foot which is where the original social distancing rule came in. I am able to avoid scattering droplets in a confined public space so feel that a face mask would have no positive effect on anyone else's health and safety. I shop alone and use the self checkout / scan and shop so seldom, if ever, talk to anyone. I very rarely sneeze (unless removing a lengthy nasal hair with a pair of cooking tongs) and if I did when in a public space then would do so into the crook of my elbow. I can't remember the last time I had to cough in a shop and if so would do as per sneezing. Aside from that I am also continuing with social distancing where possible. (I can keep my distance from others but others may enter my space)

Also I always use the hand sanitiser when entering shops and have had both doses of the Pfizer.

@MadMadMadamMim

no I’m not a scientist but able to make my own observations and come to my own conclusions.

The trouble is - as you've amply demonstrated - the people who tend to say this are the ones with absolutely no idea how to do proper, authentic, academic research with substantial and validated evidence. The biggest problem in "doing your own research" is that you need a background with enough knowledge to understand the value of the sources you are considering. This means you need to know the academic background of the 'expert', the type of papers they have previously published, what their professional qualifications and expertise is in, where the focus of their research has been, etc, etc.

I cannot even begin to try and explain how utterly impossible it is for a layperson to do their own research on something like a viral pandemic.

And this.

@MadMadMadamMim

no I’m not a scientist but able to make my own observations and come to my own conclusions.

The trouble is - as you've amply demonstrated - the people who tend to say this are the ones with absolutely no idea how to do proper, authentic, academic research with substantial and validated evidence. The biggest problem in "doing your own research" is that you need a background with enough knowledge to understand the value of the sources you are considering. This means you need to know the academic background of the 'expert', the type of papers they have previously published, what their professional qualifications and expertise is in, where the focus of their research has been, etc, etc.

I cannot even begin to try and explain how utterly impossible it is for a layperson to do their own research on something like a viral pandemic.

Just out of interest what are your qualifications?

no I’m not a scientist but able to make my own observations and come to my own conclusions.

Indeed, but that doesn’t make your observations correct, and they certainly aren’t more valid than the actual scientific consensus that, on balance, mask wearing slows the spread. There’s some serious arrogance there to think that your conclusions are the right ones.

But, even if you do believe all that, we are consistently hearing that many people feel happier and safer around mask wearers than not. This is particularly true for those in retail and amongst transport workers according to numerous surveys. So, I Struggle to understand why people wouldn’t do something that causes them no real hardship when it makes many of those around them feel more comfortable.

(And no, that doesn’t mean I want mask wearing forever, for a bit longer especially while cases are rising quickly isn’t the same as until the end of time)

@MadMadMadamMim

no I’m not a scientist but able to make my own observations and come to my own conclusions.

The trouble is - as you've amply demonstrated - the people who tend to say this are the ones with absolutely no idea how to do proper, authentic, academic research with substantial and validated evidence. The biggest problem in "doing your own research" is that you need a background with enough knowledge to understand the value of the sources you are considering. This means you need to know the academic background of the 'expert', the type of papers they have previously published, what their professional qualifications and expertise is in, where the focus of their research has been, etc, etc.

I cannot even begin to try and explain how utterly impossible it is for a layperson to do their own research on something like a viral pandemic.

this x 100

beyond anything else, to robustly answer a question like "do cloth masks reduce transmission" would need a team of qualified people and take at least a month (and this would be on a rapid review timeline). This is why we rely on reviews conducted by experts who know the field rather than attempting to answer every scientific question from scratch.

it's not something that can be answered by a "quick google" on your phone

Cloth masks are just to stop people being anxious.

The literature review I linked to upthread came to a different view, can you explain why they’re wrong and you’re right?

It’s a typical, lazy response from people who actually ARE a bit thick themselves… to accuse others of being ‘hard of thinking’ for not wearing a mask.

As soon as some proclaims that an entire cohort of people are stupid for something as silly as not wearing a mask, I immediately think that person is not very bright.

@TraumatizedFlower I didn’t realise you were targeting your comments at anyone on this thread, you didn’t indicate anything to suggest that. My point stills stands given the tone was set with the OP’s original statement which was a general supposition at best.

Some people feel they are protecting others/themselves wearing them and unless they comment on others choosing not to I say each yo their own..

The ones I object to are the ones with the over dramatic language about how they are saving life's for the greater good blah blah it's a flimsy bit of cloth in most cases but no your not saving the world and everybody else are not murderers

@2X4B523P

I think I’ll get my coat. Worst part is no one got the reference to a popular comedy I couldn’t help putting in.

OP - I knew you were making a jovial remark but, honestly, you can't have a debate on the Coronavirus board without getting insulted and ridiculed. Best to avoid.

Just out of interest what are your qualifications?

I'm a published academic in a field that is not virology or immunology - which is why I understand how to do academic research - and I also understand that I don't have the knowledge and expertise in viral pandemic studies to make my own decisions in whether I should follow the scientific advise that is being presented.

I understand that the most sensible thing to do is to accept that if mask wearing is recommended then you should wear a mask.

honestly, you can't have a debate on the Coronavirus board without getting insulted and ridiculed. Best to avoid

You can...but if you are being ridiculous you will be ridiculed. If you confused your uninformed opinion with actual fact you will be ridiculed, and you deserve to be.

I personally no longer wear a mask unless it’s busy and others are wearing theirs. The only way masks can stop transmission is if enough people were to wear them! However I always social distance and will avoid busy public transport indefinitely.

The amount of times I’ve seen people wearing a mask under their nose or chin and then claim to wear them properly is ridiculous. Same goes for “exemptions” but they happily carry on shopping in a massive group (funnily enough - they are all exempt). I’ve asked a few people who wear reusable face coverings and ask when was the last time you washed your mask? How long are you meant to wear a disposable mask before it’s deemed ineffective? The responses are shocking!

"Research" tends to be watching conspiracy theories on YouTube that your mate who works in car sales sent you via WhatsApp

The people I know in real life who claim to have "done their research" haven't got a GCSE between them. They just didn't want to obey the rules in March 2020 and have made finding new YouTube videos into their hobby. They believe anyone who fits their narrative. If they've got spurious letters after their names or are based in the US and call themselves Dr, even better.

Taking things out of context is also key to the 'researcher' - and then either shout over the person who points this out or look genuinely confused because they really don't understand.

It is a fact that there are some utterly ridiculous conspiracy theories on youtube. To call people who believe them to be true stupid is merely stating a fact.

Some people are of the opinion that the earth is flat. They are stupid.

Pretending misinformed people have a point serves no one. There is plenty of informed scientific information available. If people are too daft to read it, or too dim to understand it then it needs to be called out.

Same goes for “exemptions” but they happily carry on shopping in a massive group

Can we stop vilifying those who are exempt now, please? Particularly as there's no longer anything to be exempt from.

@TheVampiresWife, the exempt are not the problem, those appropriating exempt status are.

The exempt status lanyards have multiplied exponentially as time passed and it bugs me no end.

I am technically exempt, but eill happily wear a mask.

[quote Gingernaut]@TheVampiresWife, the exempt are not the problem, those appropriating exempt status are.

The exempt status lanyards have multiplied exponentially as time passed and it bugs me no end.

I am technically exempt, but eill happily wear a mask.[/quote]
I was referring to a poster who simply assumed that people weren't genuinely exempt. Not that there's anything to be exempt from anymore.

Also, if you're able to wear a mask, for the time you're able to (of course conditions can fluctuate) you weren't exempt. There was never a list of conditions which confer exemption. The 'I'm exempt but I wear a mask' narrative has been incredibly harmful to those who genuinely cannot wear a mask at all - the inference being that we're not trying hard enough and if others can do it, so could we.