Non mask wearers and “hard of thinking”

[2X4B523P]

After reading several threads on face mask since the 19th I have seen many posts where non maskers were referred to as being “hard of thinking” (along with being selfish). I have given thought to why I have decided not to wear a mask, see below, and I was wondering if those who refer to people as hard of thinking have actually given any thought themselves on the pros and cons of masks and came to their own conclusions?

It is known that mask use has a limited impact on transmission. From my own observations the sort of masks in common use have no effect whatsoever on preventing transmission from aerosols. They leak out around the sides of the mask and at the top, which prevented me wearing my glasses when using masks. If not a glasses wearer, anyone else can observe this for themselves by standing close to a mirror with a mask on and see the misting. I also wondered if a tight seal around the mask would help so I stood in front of a mirror and held the mask tight around my mouth and the vapour passed straight through. For those glasses users who didn't have the misting issue then there would have been a better gap elsewhere for the expelled air containing the moisture to escape from.

However masks do help to contain droplets, until evaporation takes over. This would depend on several factors including the time the mask was worn for, the ambient temperature, humidity levels and any movement of the air. Droplets are generated when talking, coughing or sneezing. These droplets fall to the ground within six foot which is where the original social distancing rule came in. I am able to avoid scattering droplets in a confined public space so feel that a face mask would have no positive effect on anyone else's health and safety. I shop alone and use the self checkout / scan and shop so seldom, if ever, talk to anyone. I very rarely sneeze (unless removing a lengthy nasal hair with a pair of cooking tongs) and if I did when in a public space then would do so into the crook of my elbow. I can't remember the last time I had to cough in a shop and if so would do as per sneezing. Aside from that I am also continuing with social distancing where possible. (I can keep my distance from others but others may enter my space)

Also I always use the hand sanitiser when entering shops and have had both doses of the Pfizer.

[quote TerritorialPissings]@leafyygreens sorry, my post wasn’t clear. I wasn’t comparing the two; I just find it hard to swallow that people are taking these precautions to declare how selfless they are in helping to not make other people ill / burden the NHS, but their other lifestyle choices clearly contradict this. It’s grating.[/quote]
Hmm, so unless we live entirely blameless lives, we shouldn't wear a mask?

@stairway

Geamhradh, I’ve done a very quick google. I’m not good at posting links in my phone but a study done in healthcare situations showed cloth masks to be pretty useless really.

a very quick google of "masks don't work" will tend to be fraught with confirmation bias

that's why systematic reviews are considered to be the gold standard of evidence based medicine

@ChristmasShearwater

I'm wearing a mask to save the hassle, OP. However, I remember (in Early Covid Times) listening to Dr Sarah Jarvis on Radio 2 doing a whole segment vehemently insisting that masks were useless - possibly dangerous. She later changed her tune.

Who knows? Not me.

Dr Sarah Jarvis is a GP not an expert in novel viruses. I cannot understand why she is used as an 'expert' by the media.

Please watch the segment on Jeremy Vine when she made Caprice look like a fool for suggesting we should lockdown. From what I remember Caprice was quoting something from a newspaper from the WHO and she got told by Jeremy to listen to Sarah as she's the 'expert.'

www.aerzteblatt.de/int/archive/article/217467

Cloth masks are never used in healthcare situations because everyone knows they don’t do much. If you want to really do your bit spend money on proper surgical masks and damage the environment at the same time. Cloth masks are just to stop people being anxious.

If you stand within 2 metres of me and neither of us wears a mask, there is a high chance that we will be breathing each other's recently expelled air. Which will contain Covid viruses if either of us has Covid.

If the Covid person is not wearing a mask, these particles will probably settle on the other person's face. If the other person wears a mask, then at least they won't be breathing them in.

If I don't know a person, I have no idea if they have Covid. So I have 2 choices - stay away from them, or wear a mask.

@Jaxhog no, and I explicitly said in a previous post that it didn’t justify not wearing a mask. I said it is frustrating that people are quick to denounce others when they’re not so perfect themselves. It doesn’t normally manifest itself so explicitly, but the mask vs non mask debate does seem to bring out the worst in people

I am so over this lecturing and "educating" about masks.

I wear my mask because it's the law. I don't want a fine, or to be accosted by the self-appointed Mask Monitors.

The very second Queen Nicola says we no longer need to wear masks (probably May 2097) I shall be ditching mine. I could not give one single fuck about what other people are doing.

@stairway

Cloth masks are never used in healthcare situations because everyone knows they don’t do much. If you want to really do your bit spend money on proper surgical masks and damage the environment at the same time. Cloth masks are just to stop people being anxious.

But your observation "everyone knows they don't do much" isn't back up by good evidence

I'm unsure what you mean by "healthcare situations" (i.e., specifically HCPs and clinicians or patients, or visitors), but when there is a higher risk of exposure, of course a higher degree of protection is required

In everyday life, it isn't feasible to supply everyone with a proper medical grade mask and fitting, hence why cloth masks are advised as a lower grade suppression measure. Wearing a cloth mask is better than not wearing a cloth mask, and surely you can appreciate that small numbers add up quickly - if just say, a 10% reduction in viral particles expelled by an infectious person into the surrounding environment was observed, this would translate into significantly fewer infections and better clinical outcomes of those who were exposed.

Initially I was quite sure I would abandon the mask. It makes me feel quite nauseous and my glasses steam up. However, I've amended my views slightly.
I'll wear one in a supermarket where people kinda HAVE to be. Not because I think it's doing a great deal but because it makes others feel more comfortable.
In bars, clothes shops, Currys etc, I'm not. (And neither are most of the staff from what I've seen) If people are managing their own risks, that's up to them, I think.
I don't use public transport.

The people bleating about dirty masks - pipe down. It only "poisons" the wearer. None of your business if it's as dirty as knickers, really.

@TheGenealogist

I am so over this lecturing and "educating" about masks.

I wear my mask because it's the law. I don't want a fine, or to be accosted by the self-appointed Mask Monitors.

The very second Queen Nicola says we no longer need to wear masks (probably May 2097) I shall be ditching mine. I could not give one single fuck about what other people are doing.

every is over it

don't wear a mask if you don't want to, but why is there this fanatical need to try and prove (with pseudoscience) that they don't work to try and justify it?

Nobody should have to justify it. In England it is no longer a legal requirement to wear a mask.

But the narrative has switched - and we've seen it often enough on this board - that if you're a caring person who considers others you will wear a mask. People who are exercising their legal right not to are murdering, selfish granny killers.

So it's hardly surprising that the murdering granny killers are trying to muster up some statistics in their favour.

Just wear a mask and stop being an idiot.

I hadn't previously thought of the maskless as hard of thinking. The OP has convinced me that it's an accurate description.

OP, you made some valid points, but I do believe that wearing masks helps to reduce the spread of the virus, and to reduce the viral load floating about in the air, so they are useful.

However, as a fellow glasses wearer I totally understand why you prefer not to wear them. No matter what sort of mask I wear, or how well it fits, or how tightly I seal the nose wire, my glasses steam up almost instantly, then I'm left stumbling around the supermarket, with blurry vision, which then makes social distancing harder. Also, I get allergic rhinitis, no matter what type of mask I wear my nose runs like a tap and I have to step aside every few minutes to a quiet corner to lift my mask, dry my face and blow my nose, before replacing the mask again. My reaction is so extreme that half an hour is about the maximum I can cope with, which meant I had to leave a job because I felt too ill when wearing masks for hours on end. This is why I am SO tempted to ditch the mask when shopping, but as the Delta variant rages on I will persist with masks in shops and other indoor settings.

I would not refer to you as hard of thinking, as you have weighed things up and seem to be taking steps to social distance etc, but I would say that when worn properly masks are useful. It's just a shame that for people who wear glasses they make life awkward.

@TheGenealogist that’s completely up to you and I get why you’re sick of the conversation but baffled why you would even participate in a discussion clearly about masks?

It’s not just you or even the subject of covid/masks, but there’s an extraordinary amount of people who feel the need to tell people discussing a subject that they’re bored or don’t care… why even read the thread in the first place? Suggests the complete opposite tbh.

All the puerile comments insulting people's intelligence has come from the mask wearers. Wear one if you want, no need to insult people who don't.

@TraumatizedFlower neither side has covered themselves in glory; to counter your statement the phrases face muzzle, face nappies and comfort blankets didn’t materialise from nowhere.

I'm open minded on masks. I've read some interesting anecdata and the physical scientists have put out some interesting demonstrations.
Medics are just flailing really on this subject so yes I ignore the likes of Dr Jarvis: they just follow latest guidelines. (The WHO said initially mask wearing was cultural which I found unimpressive from a scientific point of view.)
As it stands I'll be wearing them on public transport for the foreseeable.

[quote Cornettoninja]@TraumatizedFlower neither side has covered themselves in glory; to counter your statement the phrases face muzzle, face nappies and comfort blankets didn’t materialise from nowhere.[/quote]
and lest us not forget

"masking is a medical intervention"

Don't forget the awful 'you do you' which is what we in England at least are now doing.

[quote Cornettoninja]@TraumatizedFlower neither side has covered themselves in glory; to counter your statement the phrases face muzzle, face nappies and comfort blankets didn’t materialise from nowhere.[/quote]
Not on this thread

@stairway

Geamhradh, I’ve done a very quick google. I’m not good at posting links in my phone but a study done in healthcare situations showed cloth masks to be pretty useless really.

I agree. Where I am they were never mandated for wearing in shops etc.

no I’m not a scientist but able to make my own observations and come to my own conclusions.

The trouble is - as you've amply demonstrated - the people who tend to say this are the ones with absolutely no idea how to do proper, authentic, academic research with substantial and validated evidence. The biggest problem in "doing your own research" is that you need a background with enough knowledge to understand the value of the sources you are considering. This means you need to know the academic background of the 'expert', the type of papers they have previously published, what their professional qualifications and expertise is in, where the focus of their research has been, etc, etc.

I cannot even begin to try and explain how utterly impossible it is for a layperson to do their own research on something like a viral pandemic.

@0None0

I got bogged down in the op, and couldn’t be bothered to finish it.

No real content, just regurgitated crap from the internet.

op, you are clearly not a scientist, and not able/ capable of any scientific analysis yourself

So I suggest you just listen to those who are. Save yourself a lot of grief

This.