Non mask wearers and “hard of thinking”

[2X4B523P]

After reading several threads on face mask since the 19th I have seen many posts where non maskers were referred to as being “hard of thinking” (along with being selfish). I have given thought to why I have decided not to wear a mask, see below, and I was wondering if those who refer to people as hard of thinking have actually given any thought themselves on the pros and cons of masks and came to their own conclusions?

It is known that mask use has a limited impact on transmission. From my own observations the sort of masks in common use have no effect whatsoever on preventing transmission from aerosols. They leak out around the sides of the mask and at the top, which prevented me wearing my glasses when using masks. If not a glasses wearer, anyone else can observe this for themselves by standing close to a mirror with a mask on and see the misting. I also wondered if a tight seal around the mask would help so I stood in front of a mirror and held the mask tight around my mouth and the vapour passed straight through. For those glasses users who didn't have the misting issue then there would have been a better gap elsewhere for the expelled air containing the moisture to escape from.

However masks do help to contain droplets, until evaporation takes over. This would depend on several factors including the time the mask was worn for, the ambient temperature, humidity levels and any movement of the air. Droplets are generated when talking, coughing or sneezing. These droplets fall to the ground within six foot which is where the original social distancing rule came in. I am able to avoid scattering droplets in a confined public space so feel that a face mask would have no positive effect on anyone else's health and safety. I shop alone and use the self checkout / scan and shop so seldom, if ever, talk to anyone. I very rarely sneeze (unless removing a lengthy nasal hair with a pair of cooking tongs) and if I did when in a public space then would do so into the crook of my elbow. I can't remember the last time I had to cough in a shop and if so would do as per sneezing. Aside from that I am also continuing with social distancing where possible. (I can keep my distance from others but others may enter my space)

Also I always use the hand sanitiser when entering shops and have had both doses of the Pfizer.

No the worst part is you are supposedly backing up your lame opinions with ‘your own observations’.

@stairway

I’m with you OP, so what if people call you names, in a few weeks no one but the super anxious will be wearing them. People are only wearing them because they can’t cope with sudden change.

so you agree cloth masks are useless despite the abundance of evidence suggesting otherwise, and the fact that the majority experts recommend them?

what do you know that they don't?

Anyone reusing mucky masks do they not realise the bacteria growth would they wear the same underwear for a week?

TBF I've not seen a thread where mask wearers are called 'hard of thinking'.
It's a phrase though that would immediately make me at the poster that said it and not take them seriously.

I think the problem is the normalisation of poor mask wearing. What is the point of millions of people wearing ill-fitting, grubby masks? As a previous poster has pointed out, this really is the prevalent type of mask-wearing.

I have avid mask-wearers in my family who don them to pop into the supermarket to buy cream cakes and wine, despite being Type 2 diabetics. I’m sure they’re not the only ones…I struggle with all the inconsistencies and lack of perspective from some of the people shouting loudest about wearing masks…

I fully appreciate this is not a reason not to wear masks, it’s just an observation. People are quick to be judgemental about masks, but are equally as quick to partake in other selfish behaviours, the risks of which far outweigh the benefits of a probably healthy individual wearing a mask “just in case”…

People are only wearing them because they can’t cope with sudden change

Interesting opinion. How many people were in the survey sample?

@TerritorialPissings

I think the problem is the normalisation of poor mask wearing. What is the point of millions of people wearing ill-fitting, grubby masks? As a previous poster has pointed out, this really is the prevalent type of mask-wearing.

I have avid mask-wearers in my family who don them to pop into the supermarket to buy cream cakes and wine, despite being Type 2 diabetics. I’m sure they’re not the only ones…I struggle with all the inconsistencies and lack of perspective from some of the people shouting loudest about wearing masks…

I fully appreciate this is not a reason not to wear masks, it’s just an observation. People are quick to be judgemental about masks, but are equally as quick to partake in other selfish behaviours, the risks of which far outweigh the benefits of a probably healthy individual wearing a mask “just in case”…

T2DM isn't causing an infectious disease pandemic

obviously not great to to do things that will make your chronic illness worse (as can be said for many things), but it isn't comparable to COVID

@leafyygreens, stairway is a HCP who last year was working in a hospital with elderly Covid patients.
Which makes their take on masks rather interesting, no?

If your observation is that some masks are not very good, then the logical next step would be to start wearing a better mask, not no mask at all.

I do agree with you that a lot of masks are either not made very well, or not worn very well (or both). I'm convinced most people who complain about masks being uncomfortable are wearing a badly fitting mask. There are lots of options available from single use FFP2 masks to multi-layer fabric masks with a nose wire for a tight fit. I'm a glasses wearer too and have a collection of masks that fit comfortably and don't cause my glasses to steam up if I adjust the nose wire. I prefer a more "cupped" shape that leaves plenty of space for my mouth - they don't budge when I speak like the very flat masks people wear and end up pulling up after every few words they say.

it think the people wearing masks correctly are becoming few and far between

as soon as they hit a bit of discomfort they are pulled down off nose or under chin

see it so often.....so they are wearing it but not wearing it

The problem with the deeply dim is that they don't realise they are dim. Not sure what can be done about that.

I don’t think I’d use the phrase ‘hard of thinking’ but I’d question whether you’re aware of your own bias given the logic you’ve provided here argues for both sides of the argument. Your saying you can ‘see’ the effects of masks by observing air escaping from the sides and the through without acknowledging that this also means the mask is acting as a barrier to the rest of expelled air.

Literally no-one has ever claimed masks are 100% effective, the idea is they reduce aerosol transmission. You can’t completely control your aerosol emissions; simply breathing expels microscopic droplets (hence your mask gets wet) before even thinking about coughs/sneezes.

The aim isnt to completely eradicate any chance containing spreading a contagion it’s to reduce chances of spreading contagions. If a none mask wearer expels (for arguments sake) a billion droplets with normal breathing and a mask wearer expels a million droplets the chances of someone encountering an infectious droplet have been reduced around the mask wearer. If everyone in a setting is wearing a mask that increases the small protection to the mask wearers as individuals too.

Working on the same logic, why should I wash my hands after going to the toilet? I only touch the edges of my clothes and toilet paper, I’m not pissing over my hands so what’s the point?

[quote Geamhradh]**@leafyygreens, stairway is a HCP who last year was working in a hospital with elderly Covid patients.
Which makes their take on masks rather interesting, no?[/quote]
I don't see how it does no?

Being a HCP (who has happened to work with COVID patients )doesn't make you an expert on transmission control, and the question remains the same, why do you know that makes you disagree with the evidence that has been gathered and the majority of experts?

There are plenty of scientists who have had dubious views, not backed up by robust evidence who have had the same questions posed to them

People questioning the hygiene of masks puzzle me. Some people are dirty, some don't change their socks or underwear often enough but I've never heard anyone suggesting that we should all go comando because some people are skanky.
A person wearing a dirty mask is only a risk to themselves surely?

Leafygreens I agree I don’t think they are nearly as effective as some people do especially the really dirty masks on show recently. Scientists have changed their minds on mask wearing as has the government. However regardless covid is here to stay and I don’t want to live like this anymore. I think it’s harming child development. I would be really surprised with rates declining that the mask wearing will continue much more than a month and the supermarket will soon be full of the hard of thinking.

Which makes their take on masks rather interesting, no?

Potentially, if they have expertise and qualifications in the dynamics of viral transmission.

Otherwise I’m not sure it’s that much more interesting than anyone else who hasn’t made a specific study of the issue?

the supermarket will soon be full of the hard of thinking

How do you mean? Staff or customers?

@leafyygreens, that's what I mean. I'd think working in such an environment would make them at least slightly more aware of how masks work and slightly less dismissive of those who choose to wear them.

@leafyygreens sorry, my post wasn’t clear. I wasn’t comparing the two; I just find it hard to swallow that people are taking these precautions to declare how selfless they are in helping to not make other people ill / burden the NHS, but their other lifestyle choices clearly contradict this. It’s grating.

@stairway

Leafygreens I agree I don’t think they are nearly as effective as some people do especially the really dirty masks on show recently. Scientists have changed their minds on mask wearing as has the government. However regardless covid is here to stay and I don’t want to live like this anymore. I think it’s harming child development. I would be really surprised with rates declining that the mask wearing will continue much more than a month and the supermarket will soon be full of the hard of thinking.

but surely you can appreciate that when considering a hierarchy of evidence, your observations don't trump the consensus opinion which has been drawn from systematic and literature reviews conducted by epidemiologists, that masks do indeed reduce transmission at little cost?

@BareGrylls

People questioning the hygiene of masks puzzle me. Some people are dirty, some don't change their socks or underwear often enough but I've never heard anyone suggesting that we should all go comando because some people are skanky. A person wearing a dirty mask is only a risk to themselves surely?

The Covid Prevention Measures Absolutists are an interesting bunch. If a measure isn’t 100% effective, or people don’t follow it 100% perfectly, it should be ditched immediately because god forbid we should only reduce the risk of virus transmission.

@stairway

Leafygreens I agree I don’t think they are nearly as effective as some people do especially the really dirty masks on show recently. Scientists have changed their minds on mask wearing as has the government. However regardless covid is here to stay and I don’t want to live like this anymore. I think it’s harming child development. I would be really surprised with rates declining that the mask wearing will continue much more than a month and the supermarket will soon be full of the hard of thinking.

Which scientists?

I've not worn a mask for 6 days, its been nice to be a step closer to normality. Been out shopping today, noticed more people not wearing masks compared to Monday,and some still wearing, both scenarios all perfectly fine with me.

Everybody seemed happy and not trying to force their opinions onto others.

@justasking111

Anyone reusing mucky masks do they not realise the bacteria growth would they wear the same underwear for a week?

You are right of course. But I can no more tell if a mask hasn't been washed, than if a person's underwear hasn't been.

Geamhradh, I’ve done a very quick google. I’m not good at posting links in my phone but a study done in healthcare situations showed cloth masks to be pretty useless really.