Teens will not be routinely vaccinated, JCVI recommends

[noblegiraffe]

Their report isn't out till tomorrow, but continuing with the govt tradition of making big announcements via favoured news outlets, the Telegraph reports that the guidance will be that children aged 12+ will not be offered routine covid vaccinations.

"Instead, under guidance due to be issued on Monday, jabs will be offered to children between 12 and 15 who are deemed vulnerable to Covid or who live with adults who are immunosuppressed or otherwise vulnerable to the virus. They will also now be offered to all 17-year-olds within three months of their 18th birthday."

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/07/17/children-will-get-covid-vaccines-vulnerable/

So from September, there will be literally nothing stopping covid spreading around schools bar the odd open window.

@SchnitzelVonCrummsTum

List of eligible kids, as it stands, seems incredibly short on JCVI website. Daughter also has other autoimmune disorders but none of them put her on the list either! Time for us to start putting pressure on the CCG and secondary care to work together to try to change this (or, for instance, let vulnerable kids be 'back up' when there is spare Pfizer vaccine). But I'm not holding my breath. We've been so careful but she's just going to get it in September, isn't she? It feels inevitable. F*ck.

This is just ridiculous. You should have the option. I hope you get it soon.

@SchnitzelVonCrummsTum

I know it's not much reassurance but from what I understand most of the deaths with Covid involving people with diabetes in the UK have been in people over 40, and none in children.

It's still very low risk of death for children. But I completely understand your fears for her. I do think if at all possible that children with diabetes should be prioritised for the vaccine. For peace of mind as much as anything else.

It's worth speaking to your GP, to see if they can give it to her anyway.

The full JCVI report is here: www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-vaccination-of-children-and-young-people-aged-12-to-17-years-jcvi-statement/jvci-statement-on-covid-19-vaccination-of-children-and-young-people-aged-12-to-17-years-15-july-2021

They appear to be suggesting that children with covid shouldn't take time off school.

@noblegiraffe

The full JCVI report is here: www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-vaccination-of-children-and-young-people-aged-12-to-17-years-jcvi-statement/jvci-statement-on-covid-19-vaccination-of-children-and-young-people-aged-12-to-17-years-15-july-2021

They appear to be suggesting that children with covid shouldn't take time off school.

That is so odd. They are saying people will not need to take time off school because they will be asymptomatic, so it is fine for kids who test positive to stay in school with no social distancing and just share it round.

They also seem to be saying that the areas in which education has been most adversely affected have lower vaccine uptake as more affluent areas are pro vaccine. Are they then saying that offering vaccines to under 18s will increase the educational divide which is unacceptable?! I am all for narrowing the divide by helping lower achievers to achieve their potential and match the performance of more privileged students, but not for saying if the poor kids are disrupted because fanilies choose not to have the vaccine, the others must be too!!!

A (probably v stupid) question. DS (7) is CEV and falls into the severe respiratory category, DD is 12, but as it says 12-16 year olds living with someone immunosuppressed I assume she won't be offered the vaccine? She had so many occasions when her bubble burst and it had a huge impact on her, but it seems now that bubbles won't burst and we'll have to instead mitigate the risks of DD and DS together at home. Sigh.

This x 10000000

a policy of deliberately infecting all their teens instead of vaccinating them.

Yes, I'm not sure when the penny will drop with parents that this is the plan.

I'm appalled. I'm living in the USA, both my over 12s got their jabs last month. Of course the politicians here are being stupid about it. Americans have to have other jabs for school but they won't consider adding the Covid one. One state already passed a law saying no mandates till 2 years after it gets full approval!

Canada is also vaccinating >12s and their adult uptake is close to UK. Israel is vaccinating, and their uptake is excellent. They started rushing the teens because schools were becoming vectors. The latest figures I found are that 64% of the Israeli population is fully vaccinated, 85% of adults.

That tweet above from Dr Malone is rubbish. The data is from VAERS, the unverified, self-reported data. No serious scientist uses it for this, and using VAERS data is usually a marker of a crank.

The criteria chosen by the NHS are incredibly narrow (no siblings of immunocompromised children? No children with severe lung or respiratory conditions?)

TBQH it screams of money. The UK is being an outlier.

Thanks for sharing the JCVI report. It makes no sense. If it had just said we do not have sufficient information on the risks of vaccination I could have accepted it but to try to justify not rolling it out on the basis of vaccination increasing educational disparities is crazy.

I suspect by the 2nd week of the autumn term when schools ae highly disrupted and they realise covid can't be controlled without vaccinating the over 12s there will be a u turn. Maybe our stock of Pfizer is the real issue?

Yes as I suspected Pfizer seems to be running out
www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/covid-vaccine-rates-plummet-government-20990096

We original purchased 40 million doses (so 20 million people). Does anyone know how many people have had pfizer so far and when the extra 60 million doses ordered in april are expected to arrive?

I suspect this will be when they decide it is worth vaccinating over 12s.

This was the correct decision. Too bad American children had to suffer first.

No healthy child in the UK has died from COVID, and it’s quite right to offer the shot to children with conditions deemed vulnerable.

After all, could the NHS handle increased hospitalisations from myocarditis? That’s something they have to think about whereas the US does not.

I wonder how logistically they are going to vaccinate that group. Ds wouldn't tolerate being vaccinated in an unfamiliar setting with unfamiliar people including at the GPs who have been unable to get near him for years. All his vaccines have to be done at school.

Used up- thats rubbish more kids have had myocarditis from covid than the vax!
The cdc clearly shows the bendfits outweight the risk in that age group

Plus if it were myocarditis then they would vax girls as they have shown much much lower rates after vax. ....

@UsedUpUsername

This was the correct decision. Too bad American children had to suffer first.

No healthy child in the UK has died from COVID, and it’s quite right to offer the shot to children with conditions deemed vulnerable.

After all, could the NHS handle increased hospitalisations from myocarditis? That’s something they have to think about whereas the US does not.

tiny tiny risk of myocarditis from the vaccine

from US physicians, more risk of worse myocarditis from covid.

but US have a better supply of Pfizer vaccine than us, that's a more sensible reason

@UsedUpUsername

This was the correct decision. Too bad American children had to suffer first.

No healthy child in the UK has died from COVID, and it’s quite right to offer the shot to children with conditions deemed vulnerable.

After all, could the NHS handle increased hospitalisations from myocarditis? That’s something they have to think about whereas the US does not.

1552 worldwide from over 300,000,000 vaccine shots? Probably.

I had hoped they would at least vaccinate the older kids. So I look forward to my son going into GCSE year with yet more disruption almost certain to now catch covid as there is no protection for them at all. Risk of long covid outweighs risk of vaccine.

Our DS 13 would qualify according to the JCVI, as he has severe autism and other complex learning / development issues.
He won't be having it though - concerned that not enough research has been done on the jab in his age group, plus the risk of myocarditis. Not sure if the benefits outweigh the possible risks.

@OnTheBrink1

Good. Totally abandoned utterly wrong to inject children with a jab that could well be more risky than actually getting covid. Abhorrent.

And do you by any chance have a vulnerable child?

I thought not.

Go crawl back under your bridge, there's a good troll.

@mrsanflowerpot I was wondering a similar thing - my dd8 has one of the conditions that would make her eligible for the vaccine if she was 12+. But no mention that her older siblings can be vaccinated, the focus just seems to be on children living with immunocompromised adults.

[quote pinkpip100]@mrsanflowerpot I was wondering a similar thing - my dd8 has one of the conditions that would make her eligible for the vaccine if she was 12+. But no mention that her older siblings can be vaccinated, the focus just seems to be on children living with immunocompromised adults. [/quote]
It's so very frustrating!

but to try to justify not rolling it out on the basis of vaccination increasing educational disparities is crazy.

Yes, it’s a very odd inclusion into a scientific report, like it’s not really their remit.

Im pretty sure we cannot trust our gov or the people they pick as advisors.
When other countries make different choices it has mainly been them to make the best ones.
(The larger dosing gap does seem to work better but who know when we are the ones in a wave).
As even our own health mrha (?) have said it's fine to give to this age group.
Then it is a decision by the vax committee so it is them/gov where they stupidly did nt order extra pfizer to cover giving it to all under 40s. (I think they are keeping the extra they did order for the elderly as AZ isnt as effective).
If we have the suppy - which lets face it we are all paying for then we as parents need to bw given the choice. (As it is safe and it isnt up to them to consider my reasons why i would prefer vax vs natural infection for my dc). But also even if you have younger dc so not able to vax you are affected as older kids are spreading it.
Putting my foot down re this.
My kids have now missed
21w +8w/42 so not far off a year at school. Plus 5 days now school had to shut. Plus various other illness/testing etc.
And now we are meant to spend sept onwards catching covid. Which will be more distruption!!
At this rates exams taken for the next 10y will be affected with those key worker kids having an advantage/disadvantage depending on parents home school ability.
All children would have equal opportunity for a jab so that is making the situation more equal.
With covid raging unlike most other countries now, kids have lost
More weeks isolating (which is needed)
Weeks of their holiday time
Weeks of their paid holiday
Weekend activities
No birthday parties
No school trips
Swimming lessons
Sports day

Ive had enough. Let us vax the ones that want to and bloody get on with reducing rates.
Their grandparents are 70+ weve seen then twice in 18m.
And were supposed to be on holiday now with them. But cant as rates are so high

• trying to achieve herd immunity through kids. It's not just those living with cev that have a problem it's family trying to visit.

The sensible thing would have been to stop isolating only the vaxxed kids. Our school is shut having it spread despite local vax rates of 90% in adults 1st dose. So presumably the teachers and parents are mainly vaxxed. 70% dose 2 so So say 420 parent 30 teachers 70% of 450.

135 unvaxxed fully parents and teachers obviously the kids have led to an outbreak. And thats with shutting bubbles and no assemblies......

I am trying to get my head around herd immunity .

I keep getting emails Bristol Council think 70% adults over 18 had least 1 dose.
The entire Bristol population size is roughly 465k
The head of Bristol public health said we have 50k students i assumed under 18 mostly unvaccinated so approx 12% of entire population.
Which means if every adult consented unlikely for variety of reasons max adults would be 88% but doubt its that high as takeup varies by area.
1 jab something like 10% effective
Variations on effectiveness depending what jab you had.
We had 2 very large universities so large 18-30 population.

www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/how-covid-cases-surged-bristol-5655092

I think its combination of money, supply and trying get natural herd immunity.

I was watching something last night.

Herd immunity through infection will never exist, You only get immunity from the variant you were infected with. You aren’t immune to a new variant. It also said that antibodies from the vaccine were much more powerful than antibodies from an infection.

I’m not sure we can even get herd immunity.