Page 19 | Teens will not be routinely vaccinated, JCVI recommends

noblegiraffe · 2021-07-18T08:15:14+00:00

Their report isn't out till tomorrow, but continuing with the govt tradition of making big announcements via favoured news outlets, the Telegraph reports that the guidance will be that children aged 12+ will ^not^ be offered routine covid vaccinations. "Instead, under guidance due to be issued on Monday, jabs will be offered to children between 12 and 15 who are deemed vulnerable to Covid or who live with adults who are immunosuppressed or otherwise vulnerable to the virus. They will also now be offered to all 17-year-olds within three months of their 18th birthday." [[https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/07/17/children-will-get-covid-vaccines-vulnerable/]] So from September, there will be literally nothing stopping covid spreading around schools bar the odd open window.

UsedUpUsername · 20/07/2021 10:06

@HSHorror

Used up- thats rubbish more kids have had myocarditis from covid than the vax! The cdc clearly shows the bendfits outweight the risk in that age group

Show me the stats on myocarditis risks to male teens only. I have only seen the risks generalised to the entire population, which is a bit disingenuous, no?

UsedUpUsername · 20/07/2021 10:14

1552 worldwide from over 300,000,000 vaccine shots?

It’s actually more like 1 in 5000:

As of June 11 (the latest date most data were collected for the meeting), 128 cases within seven days of the second dose had been reported in boys aged 12 to 17, when the CDC’s expected number for that same population was zero to four cases. VAERS, the reporting database for vaccine-related adverse events that these statistics are drawn from, has limitations. Some portion of the events reported may be unrelated to the vaccines. But the differential between expected and observed cases within certain cohorts is the statistical equivalent of a blaring siren. (A detailed analysis in Israel estimated the incidence of myocarditis following vaccination in young males to be around one in 5,000, equating to 200 cases per million.)

This is a great article outlining the actual risks (and not cowardly to hide the risks within those of the general population):

www.wired.com/story/the-cdc-owes-parents-better-messaging-on-the-vaccine-for-kids/amp

Geamhradh · 20/07/2021 10:44

www.hhs.gov/about/news/2021/06/23/statement-following-cdc-acip-meeting-nations-leading-doctors-nurses-public-health-leaders-benefits-vaccination.html

HSHorror · 20/07/2021 10:44

Myocarditis and Pericarditis
Updated June 23, 2021
Print
What You Need to Know
More than 177 million people have received at least one dose of COVID-19 vaccine in the United States, and CDC continues to monitor the safety of COVID-19 vaccines for any health problems that happen after vaccination.
Since April 2021, there have been more than a thousand reports to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) of cases of inflammation of the heart—called myocarditis and pericarditis—happening after mRNA COVID-19 vaccination (i.e., Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna) in the United States.
These reports are rare, given the hundreds of millions of vaccine doses administered, and have been reported after mRNA COVID-19 vaccination, particularly in adolescents and young adults. View the latest information.
CDC and its partners are actively monitoring these reports, by reviewing data and medical records, to learn more about what happened and to understand any relationship to COVID-19 vaccination.
Most patients who received care responded well to treatment and rest and quickly felt better.
Confirmed cases have occurred:
Mostly in male adolescents and young adults age 16 years or older
More often after getting the second dose than after the first dose of one of these two mRNA COVID-19 vaccines
Typically within several days after COVID-19 vaccination
Patients can usually return to their normal daily activities after their symptoms improve. They should speak with their doctor about return to exercise or sports.
CDC continues to recommend COVID-19 vaccination for everyone 12 years of age and older, given the risk of COVID-19 illness and related, possibly severe complications.
Getting vaccinated is the best way to help protect yourself and your family from COVID-19.
More information will be shared as it becomes available.
Myocarditis is inflammation of the heart muscle, and pericarditis is inflammation of the outer lining of the heart. In both cases, the body’s immune system causes inflammation in response to an infection or some other trigger. Learn more about myocarditis and pericarditisexternal icon.

Should I Still Get Myself or My Child Vaccinated?
Yes. CDC continues to recommend COVID-19 vaccination for everyone 12 years of age and older, given the risk of COVID-19 illness and related, possibly severe complications, such as long-term health problems, hospitalization, and even death. If you or your child has already gotten the first dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna vaccine, it’s important to get the second dose unless a vaccination provider or your doctor tells you not to get it.

The known and potential benefits of COVID-19 vaccination outweigh the known and potential risks, including the possible risk of myocarditis or pericarditis. Also, most patients with myocarditis and pericarditis who received care responded well to treatment and rest and quickly felt better.

If you have concerns about COVID-19 vaccination, talk with your or your child’s doctor, nurse, or clinic.

What Myocarditis/Pericarditis Symptoms Should I Be on the Lookout for after mRNA COVID-19 Vaccination?
Be on the lookout for any of the following symptoms:

Chest pain
Shortness of breath
Feelings of having a fast-beating, fluttering, or pounding heart
Seek medical care if you think you or your child have any of these symptoms within a week after COVID-19 vaccination.

If you have any health problems after vaccination, report them to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting Systemexternal icon (VAERS).

The info on being mainly boys and infavour of vax was similar to the chart the uk gov did for the clots. I dont have the source as i saw in on mn as a screen shot.

Tbh it seems riduculous - uk forced over 40 into az which did have risk of death. Yet wont allow parents to decide on vaccinating kids but the myocarditis risk of death is much smaller. And is not a risk for girls

Geamhradh · 20/07/2021 10:47

“The facts are clear: this is an extremely rare side effect, and only an exceedingly small number of people will experience it after vaccination. Importantly, for the young people who do, most cases are mild, and individuals recover often on their own or with minimal treatment. In addition, we know that myocarditis and pericarditis are much more common if you get COVID-19, and the risks to the heart from COVID-19 infection can be more severe.

“The vaccines are safe and effective, and they prevent COVID-19 illness. They will help protect you and your family and keep your community safe. We strongly encourage everyone age 12 and older who are eligible to receive the vaccine under Emergency Use Authorization to get vaccinated, as the benefits of vaccination far outweigh any harm. Especially with the troubling Delta variant increasingly circulating, and more readily impacting younger people, the risks of being unvaccinated are far greater than any rare side effects from the vaccines. If you get COVID-19, you could get severely ill and be hospitalized or even die. Even if your infection is mild, you or your child could face long-term symptoms following COVID-19 infection such as neurological problems or diminished lung function.”

Salient paragraphs from the article above, counter-signed by at least 20 professional medical bodies.

aldkj · 20/07/2021 10:54

Does the supply come from the EU, which is now vaccinating at fast rate including under 12s so maybe less willing to sell us their Pfizer? Esp. since we are intent on becoming the new-variant-hub of the developed world.

It is very wrong for the government to fuel anti-vaxx (and yes, if you had the vaccine yourself but think you know better than MHRA for the children's safety then you are still anti-vaxxer) paranoia by suggesting the wholly unqualified cabinet (and not entirely independent JCVI) need to assess the data (they can only get away with this because the general public have no idea how drug regulation and data monitoring work, but TLDR it is the MHRA that know best).

bumbleymummy · 20/07/2021 11:07

yes, if you had the vaccine yourself but think you know better than MHRA for the children's safety then you are still anti-vaxxer

This is absolute and utter BS. You are trying to lump people with some reservations about one specific vaccine together with extremists and conspiracy theorists to discredit their opinion. Just stop.

UsedUpUsername · 20/07/2021 11:42

These reports are rare, given the hundreds of millions of vaccine doses administered, and have been reported after mRNA COVID-19 vaccination, particularly in adolescents and young adults. View the latest information

Did you read the article I linked? It criticizes the CDC for this decision and makes a very good case why these vaccines aren’t that beneficial for this age/sex group.

You can’t highlight ‘hundreds of millions’ doses when actually relatively few doses have been given to teenage males and the side effects have been far beyond their initial estimates.

Geamhradh · 20/07/2021 11:50

@UsedUpUsername

These reports are rare, given the hundreds of millions of vaccine doses administered, and have been reported after mRNA COVID-19 vaccination, particularly in adolescents and young adults. View the latest information

Did you read the article I linked? It criticizes the CDC for this decision and makes a very good case why these vaccines aren’t that beneficial for this age/sex group.

You can’t highlight ‘hundreds of millions’ doses when actually relatively few doses have been given to teenage males and the side effects have been far beyond their initial estimates.

You are cherry picking from an article published in a non medical publication by a non medical writer. Ever thought there might be an agenda?

The article, counter-signed by many medical professional bodies, confirms that you are more likely to develop myocarditis from Covid than the vaccine and it's very rare. In the same way that a couple of months ago, it was pointed out by medical experts that incidence of blood clots following AZ was LOWER % of people vaccinated than for the same number of the general non-vaccinated population. (As some wit said, it's virtually an anti-coagulant in that case)

EasterIssland · 20/07/2021 12:00

“ Does the supply come from the EU, which is now vaccinating at fast rate including under 12s so maybe less willing to sell us their Pfizer? Esp. since we are intent on becoming the new-variant-hub of the developed world.”

This doesn’t make sense. If the uk is going to be the new variant hub then it makes sense to vaccinate as many people as possible. The fact is that it doesn’t matter if the uk is 100% vaccinated. There will be somewhere where they’re 10% and that if a variant is developed in that country it’ll sooner or later reach the 100% vaccinated country and maybe cause problems

UsedUpUsername · 20/07/2021 12:06

The article, counter-signed by many medical professional bodies

Lol who can believe medical experts after COVID? You can also find medical experts that truly believe men can become women. Show the data (with correct denominators), otherwise it’s a trash appeal to authority.

Here’s a well-respected medical journal saying pretty much the same thing: blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/07/13/covid-19-vaccines-for-children-hypothetical-benefits-to-adults-do-not-outweigh-risks-to-children/

you are more likely to develop myocarditis from Covid than the vaccine and it's very rare

Show me the stats that say 1 in 5000 healthy teen boys develop myocarditis from COVID infection. Oh, you can’t.

In the same way that a couple of months ago, it was pointed out by medical experts that incidence of blood clots following AZ was LOWER % of people vaccinated than for the same number of the general non-vaccinated population

But not for women of child-bearing age? That’s why they don’t get that vaccine anymore.

You are using the wrong denominators here.

I’ll post this again because it’s staggering:

As of June 11 (the latest date most data were collected for the meeting), 128 cases within seven days of the second dose had been reported in boys aged 12 to 17, when the CDC’s expected number for that same population was zero to four cases

128 cases within one week of the second dose. The UK is lucky that the US went first ....

Geamhradh · 20/07/2021 12:15

Oh dear.
You might want to look up the credentials of the three contributors to the blog post you've quoted from. None are experts in virology and 2 are well-known anti-vaxxers of long standing.

All a bit confirmation bias and QED innit?

Geamhradh · 20/07/2021 12:17

If you Google Doshi and use the search terms "fact check" alongside, you come across some interesting ideas he has had, and publishes, whilst having no medical credentials whatsoever to do so. He's an anthropologist graduate who annoys his employers at John Hopkins quite a lot for his erm, eclectic ideas on medicine.

UsedUpUsername · 20/07/2021 12:22

@Geamhradh

Oh dear. You might want to look up the credentials of the three contributors to the blog post you've quoted from. None are experts in virology and 2 are well-known anti-vaxxers of long standing.

All a bit confirmation bias and QED innit?

Then why don’t you refute the content instead of smearing the contributors?

Lonel · 20/07/2021 12:26

Then why don’t you refute the content instead of smearing the contributors?
Personally I do not have a background in virology so I trust the experts that do - especially when there are more of them - and mistrust the anti-vaxxers. Not all "experts" should be given equal credence.

Geamhradh · 20/07/2021 12:49

@UsedUpUsername

It isn't my job to refute the comments. I leave that to medical experts. I do consider it a civic duty of sorts to point out that just because something has been published, it doesn't mean a) it's correct b) there isn't an agenda behind it.

I've learned on here to immediately Google any named "expert" put forward by posters on both sides of the argument. And to AS any poster- like the one on Sunday claiming to work in an ICU "full" of double-vaccinated young people on ventilators. Curiously, she'd been WFH on Zoom a few months ago. Thread was taken down. There's more agendas on here than in WHS at Christmas.

Would I be vaguely worried about vaccinating my teenage son? Possibly. I'd ask my doctor what they thought. I'd read the facts from experts. I'd reach the conclusion that possibly the real experts know more than a well-known anti-vaxxer anthropologist.

I have a teenage daughter who'll be vaccinated in 2 weeks. Do I think her periods might go awry for a bit? Possibly. Do I think she'll get a blood clot? She'd have to be (literally) one in a million. Do I think her having the vaccination takes us one step closer to coming out of this? Absolutely.

nonono1 · 20/07/2021 12:53

I don’t see where you read that argument on this thread. It’s one of the factors but most definitely the only or main one

I didn’t read it on this thread, but have seen it suggested elsewhere. It shouldn’t be a factor in the discussion at all IMO - adults are meant to protect children, not the other way round.

I would support parents who wish to vaccinate their children to have freedom to do so if they want to, but my DC won’t be getting vaccinated at present.

bumbleymummy · 20/07/2021 13:16

[quote Geamhradh]@UsedUpUsername

It isn't my job to refute the comments. I leave that to medical experts. I do consider it a civic duty of sorts to point out that just because something has been published, it doesn't mean a) it's correct b) there isn't an agenda behind it.

I've learned on here to immediately Google any named "expert" put forward by posters on both sides of the argument. And to AS any poster- like the one on Sunday claiming to work in an ICU "full" of double-vaccinated young people on ventilators. Curiously, she'd been WFH on Zoom a few months ago. Thread was taken down. There's more agendas on here than in WHS at Christmas.

Would I be vaguely worried about vaccinating my teenage son? Possibly. I'd ask my doctor what they thought. I'd read the facts from experts. I'd reach the conclusion that possibly the real experts know more than a well-known anti-vaxxer anthropologist.

I have a teenage daughter who'll be vaccinated in 2 weeks. Do I think her periods might go awry for a bit? Possibly. Do I think she'll get a blood clot? She'd have to be (literally) one in a million. Do I think her having the vaccination takes us one step closer to coming out of this? Absolutely.[/quote]
Isn’t this entire thread about the fact that the JCVI experts weighed up all the evidence and decided that they wouldn’t recommend vaccination for teens? Are you questioning their conclusion?

Monkey2001 · 20/07/2021 16:20

Isn’t this entire thread about the fact that the JCVI experts weighed up all the evidence and decided that they wouldn’t recommend vaccination for teens? Are you questioning their conclusion?

Absolutely! They are only looking at death an hospitalisation, which is not the main issue for my DS doing A levels next year. They are not taking account of educational disruption or the potential for fatigue and brain fog associated with Long Covid. It is a politically expedient decision driven, in all probability, by a shortage of Pfizer vaccine. Is my over 6ft 17.25 year old suddenly going to be at less risk from the vaccine in 6 months? Of course he isn't! Would I rather he had the vaccine over the summer to maximise the chances of an uninterrupted Y13? YES!!!

CalamityJaneDoe · 20/07/2021 21:23

Right, call me stupid but surely in that case they could just offer it to girls and not boys? Or offer to both and mention the risk of boys developing myocarditis? If children aren’t going to be isolating when positive and still attending school we will need tidebreakers- ie, the vaccinated- or it’s just going to wash over all the children and create endless variants, surely?

Walkaround · 20/07/2021 21:25

Isn’t this entire thread about the fact that the JCVI experts weighed up all the evidence and decided that they wouldn’t recommend vaccination for teens? Are you questioning their conclusion?
@bumbleymummy - yes, I question the conclusions of any organisation which concludes it is not in the best interests of a 17 year old to be vaccinated in the summer before they start year 13 rather than in the middle of winter in year 13, as though it is even the tiniest bit in their health and safety interests to delay a vaccine by a mere few months, but then to harry them into getting jabbed before they turn 18 if they want to be allowed to do things only vaccinated 18-year olds will be allowed to do by then. You tell me how this is remotely in their interests in an important exam year. Bet you can’t.

bumbleymummy · 21/07/2021 00:04

Well they’re only having to do that because they’re placing restrictions on 18 year olds if they’re not vaccinated. The vaccine itself isn’t necessary (or shouldn’t be) for them either - they’re not high risk.

bumbleymummy · 21/07/2021 00:25

JCVI statement -

www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-vaccination-of-children-and-young-people-aged-12-to-17-years-jcvi-statement/jvci-statement-on-covid-19-vaccination-of-children-and-young-people-aged-12-to-17-years-15-july-2021

They did actually consider educational disruption and long covid, pims and Mis-c too @Monkey2001. Not just deaths snd hospitalisations.

Wildewoodz · 21/07/2021 00:37

@HSHorror

Myocarditis and Pericarditis Updated June 23, 2021 Print What You Need to Know More than 177 million people have received at least one dose of COVID-19 vaccine in the United States, and CDC continues to monitor the safety of COVID-19 vaccines for any health problems that happen after vaccination. Since April 2021, there have been more than a thousand reports to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) of cases of inflammation of the heart—called myocarditis and pericarditis—happening after mRNA COVID-19 vaccination (i.e., Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna) in the United States. These reports are rare, given the hundreds of millions of vaccine doses administered, and have been reported after mRNA COVID-19 vaccination, particularly in adolescents and young adults. View the latest information. CDC and its partners are actively monitoring these reports, by reviewing data and medical records, to learn more about what happened and to understand any relationship to COVID-19 vaccination. Most patients who received care responded well to treatment and rest and quickly felt better. Confirmed cases have occurred: Mostly in male adolescents and young adults age 16 years or older More often after getting the second dose than after the first dose of one of these two mRNA COVID-19 vaccines Typically within several days after COVID-19 vaccination Patients can usually return to their normal daily activities after their symptoms improve. They should speak with their doctor about return to exercise or sports. CDC continues to recommend COVID-19 vaccination for everyone 12 years of age and older, given the risk of COVID-19 illness and related, possibly severe complications. Getting vaccinated is the best way to help protect yourself and your family from COVID-19. More information will be shared as it becomes available. Myocarditis is inflammation of the heart muscle, and pericarditis is inflammation of the outer lining of the heart. In both cases, the body’s immune system causes inflammation in response to an infection or some other trigger. Learn more about myocarditis and pericarditisexternal icon.