Page 4 | Government urging caution…

Moonme · 2021-07-13T09:45:37+00:00

Anyone else feel like we are back to early March 2020. They are opening night clubs but then telling us to be cautious and not be reckless?! How do we square that circle? What is reckless behaviour? Coffee in doors? Going to a bar? Sitting in a cinema? Finding it increasingly hard to know what we should be doing. Government once again have totally lost control of the public health messaging.

MistressOfEvilMaleficent · 13/07/2021 13:48

[quote Moonme]@MistressOfEvilMaleficent we have laws and legislation for those things though?!
It’s not just because I think it’s the right thing to do…[/quote]
Yeah we do, but funny enough people still break the law on a daily basis whilst driving. So even with a legal implication to reckless behaviour they still do it. Laws and legislation aren't a deterrent to some. What a lovely work we would live in if nobody broke the law.

And now that lockdown fatigue has set in, the horse has bolted. However just because the horse has bolted it doesn't mean you have to run after it.

You have a personal choice. You can make a risk assessment. Do so. Nobody is forcing you to do anything you don't want to do.

The government can control your life forever, we will live with Covid for years to come, our economy can not survive 2/3 more years of stagnant growth, our populations mental health can't cope with never ending lockdowns.

Make responsible choices, that's all we can ask. Many will, a few won't. That's life.

Original poster

Moonme · 13/07/2021 13:48

And if you repeatedly drive at 90 you do have your license taken away…

OP posts:

MarshaBradyo · 13/07/2021 13:51

@Jaxhog

All I know is that as an older vulnerable person, my life will be in isolation. Again.

I hope all the selfish, self-centred people are happy.

What would you have liked, say after everyone is vaccinated?

What level of restrictions would you want. Is it just masks or more?

Notsowise · 13/07/2021 13:57

@Jaxhog what do you want to happen? Zero Covid? Lockdown forever?

Selfish, self centred people haven’t caused this - it’s a virus.

MistressOfEvilMaleficent · 13/07/2021 13:59

@Moonme

And if you repeatedly drive at 90 you do have your license taken away…

Yes and rightly so, and if you were to repeatedly break health violations such as refusals to self isolate (which isn't being taken away) or refuse to isolate coming from a red list country you'd be fined and face the law.

You only get your licence taken away if you are caught, bit I digress, plenty of people on a daily basis exceed speed limits we don't ban everyone from driving is my point.

You drive responsibly, thousands/millions of motorists drive responsibly. You risk assess, it's safe to drive.

The government can not/will not make risk assessments for you for the rest of your life.

Unsoliciteddeckpic · 13/07/2021 14:03

People saying 'make your own risk assesments' and 'only do what you are comfortable'

How do you spend you life living by your own risk assessments and only doing what you want?

For months people have been saying offices workers need to be back, becausevthe economy will fail. That offices workers must go back or we will lose £400 in the economy. And now it's 'make your own risk assesment'

And what if your own risk assesment says, going back to the office, using public transport and sitting in the office with the usual numbers, isn't safe and they are comfortable?

The threads here where people are ripped to shreds, because they dare say they would prefer to stay at home shows that people don't think other people making their own risk assesments, is ok.

I don't know anyone, who only goes to places or does things that they want to. And when you are going somewhere you have to, you are relying on other people being sensible as well. So you are relying on their risk assesments and what they are comfortable with.

KisstheTeapot14 · 13/07/2021 14:04

I don't think anyone is saying zero Covid. I do think people are saying proportionate response.

Not letting the virus rip through unvaccinated teens and young people where there is a significant risk of them having a long term disabling condition (7% of children are getting Long Covid for example). That's a hell of a lot of chronic illness to deal with - for the NHS in future etc

Trying to control the spread and minimize it, whilst allowing the maximum freedom possible. I think getting rid of all restrictions is frankly a gamble with very high stakes.

My area of the UK Covid map is red now (very high at over 400 per 100,000). That's a risk for everyone's family and community where there are still vulnerable people for whatever reason.

KisstheTeapot14 · 13/07/2021 14:05

Clarification: 7% of children who have had Covid either mild/asymptomatic or severe.

Unsoliciteddeckpic · 13/07/2021 14:06

You drive responsibly, thousands/millions of motorists drive responsibly. You risk assess, it's safe to drive.

Yes, but you could also be killed by someone's poor risk assesment. So that doesn't really work as an example.

Yes and rightly so, and if you were to repeatedly break health violations such as refusals to self isolate (which isn't being taken away) or refuse to isolate coming from a red list country you'd be fined and face the law.

Loads of people just aren't paying the fines. But also, lots of people are not symptomatic. So they don't know they have it.

Most people driving like dicks, know they are breaking the laws around driving a motoring vehicle. Lots of people spreading covid have no idea they are.

MarshaBradyo · 13/07/2021 14:06

@KisstheTeapot14

I don't think anyone is saying zero Covid. I do think people are saying proportionate response.

Not letting the virus rip through unvaccinated teens and young people where there is a significant risk of them having a long term disabling condition (7% of children are getting Long Covid for example). That's a hell of a lot of chronic illness to deal with - for the NHS in future etc

Trying to control the spread and minimize it, whilst allowing the maximum freedom possible. I think getting rid of all restrictions is frankly a gamble with very high stakes.

My area of the UK Covid map is red now (very high at over 400 per 100,000). That's a risk for everyone's family and community where there are still vulnerable people for whatever reason.

Except pp says we are selfish etc must be double vaccinated so I’m not sure what is expected

How does slowing down virus help teens? If they get it this autumn or next year for example the risk to long Covid is the same

Vaccinating teens would alter the risk

MistressOfEvilMaleficent · 13/07/2021 14:14

How do I make my own risk assessment regarding covid:

Friends: Do you want to go to a crowded, poorly ventilated nightclub with hundreds of people?

Me: no thank you but enjoy. I'll see you in two weeks after the event.

Friends: Fancy coming to the beer garden with 3 of us were all double vaccinated and sat outside.

Me: Yes ok, that sounds safer. See you at 1.

Shopping: Do I want to go to a crowded shopping center/Tesco

Me: Nah I'll order online.

Work:

Has my employer taken every possible action to prevent the spread of covid.

Work: we've fitted perspex screens, we have hand sanitation stations and urge colleagues to wash hands and stay 2m apart. We have also encouraged better ventilation of workspaces by opening all windows. We have also put you all on a rota of half in on certain days, half staff in on other days. Do not come to work if you are symptomatic.

Me: They have done all they can, I risk asses that safe to go back.

Not that I had to go back I worked 60+ hours a week in a community based role helping and supporting vulnerable members of society in a face to face role, sweating under full PPE.

You can't eliminate all risk, but you can make choices of your own exposure and therefore further exposure to friends and family.

nordica · 13/07/2021 14:16

@Unsoliciteddeckpic

People saying 'make your own risk assesments' and 'only do what you are comfortable'

How do you spend you life living by your own risk assessments and only doing what you want?

For months people have been saying offices workers need to be back, becausevthe economy will fail. That offices workers must go back or we will lose £400 in the economy. And now it's 'make your own risk assesment'

And what if your own risk assesment says, going back to the office, using public transport and sitting in the office with the usual numbers, isn't safe and they are comfortable?

The threads here where people are ripped to shreds, because they dare say they would prefer to stay at home shows that people don't think other people making their own risk assesments, is ok.

I don't know anyone, who only goes to places or does things that they want to. And when you are going somewhere you have to, you are relying on other people being sensible as well. So you are relying on their risk assesments and what they are comfortable with.

This!

This is also why I think they should have kept the mask requirement on public transport and supermarkets for example, as most people need to use those out of necessity. It's different if it's the pub, a club or the cinema - going there is a choice.

jerrywesterby · 13/07/2021 14:17

@DentonsFringeArnottsWaistcoat

Yeah, it’s either totally safe to fully reopen or it isn’t. If they had said something like - we know this will cause higher infection, hospitalisation and death rates but we have concluded it is better to have that during summer than postpone the inevitable til winter, then it might have made some sense. But this you’re free to do as you wish/don’t do as you wish shit, yet again, is stupid.

That is literally exactly what they said 🤷🏻‍♀️

MistressOfEvilMaleficent · 13/07/2021 14:20

Rumour has it here in Wales, face masks will stay, as will work from home if possible will stay.

Mind you everyone and their dog are now buying those lanyards so what good it will do I don't know. 🤷🏻‍♀️

PrincessNutNuts · 13/07/2021 14:27

@DentonsFringeArnottsWaistcoat

Yeah, it’s either totally safe to fully reopen or it isn’t. If they had said something like - we know this will cause higher infection, hospitalisation and death rates but we have concluded it is better to have that during summer than postpone the inevitable til winter, then it might have made some sense. But this you’re free to do as you wish/don’t do as you wish shit, yet again, is stupid.

It's obviously not at all safe to reopen.

The government would just prefer us to space out the numbers of us their policy is putting in hospital and putting in the ground.

That's why they are telling us not to do it all at once.

Unsoliciteddeckpic · 13/07/2021 14:30

Work:

Has my employer taken every possible action to prevent the spread of covid.

Work: we've fitted perspex screens, we have hand sanitation stations and urge colleagues to wash hands and stay 2m apart. We have also encouraged better ventilation of workspaces by opening all windows. We have also put you all on a rota of half in on certain days, half staff in on other days. Do not come to work if you are symptomatic.

Firstly, not all employers are doing all they can. People can't afford time off so come in, even with symptoms. Not everyone can stay 2 meters apart, if everyone is in. And how doesn't Windows all open, work in winter?

And yet, if your employers says you have to go back.....you have to go back. Even if they haven't done all they can or very much at all. That's not your own risk assesment.

And if employers don't force people back its, apparently, the end of life as we know it because the economy will fail without offices workers.

Again, it's not down to people making their own risk assesments.

Thankfully, this is why many employers aren't going back yet or at all. But they will get blamed for the poor economy instead.

And yes, you can tell you don't work in an office, because of the magical way you think that converstation will go and how you think offices actually work.

PrincessNutNuts · 13/07/2021 14:31

@Unsoliciteddeckpic

People saying 'make your own risk assesments' and 'only do what you are comfortable'

How do you spend you life living by your own risk assessments and only doing what you want?

For months people have been saying offices workers need to be back, becausevthe economy will fail. That offices workers must go back or we will lose £400 in the economy. And now it's 'make your own risk assesment'

And what if your own risk assesment says, going back to the office, using public transport and sitting in the office with the usual numbers, isn't safe and they are comfortable?

The threads here where people are ripped to shreds, because they dare say they would prefer to stay at home shows that people don't think other people making their own risk assesments, is ok.

I don't know anyone, who only goes to places or does things that they want to. And when you are going somewhere you have to, you are relying on other people being sensible as well. So you are relying on their risk assesments and what they are comfortable with.

Exactly that.

SexTrainGlue · 13/07/2021 14:35

I can't stand Nicola Sturgeon (for a variety of reasons) but right now I wish I was in Scotland.

She's shown up the emptiness of 'if not now then when' - Whitty alluded to other modelling and they are clearly following a different one. Which shows that other choices are available, and theat the answer to 'when' is 'across the summer and in a series of smaller steps'

MistressOfEvilMaleficent · 13/07/2021 14:37