Government urging caution…

[Moonme]

Anyone else feel like we are back to early March 2020. They are opening night clubs but then telling us to be cautious and not be reckless?! How do we square that circle? What is reckless behaviour? Coffee in doors? Going to a bar? Sitting in a cinema?
Finding it increasingly hard to know what we should be doing.
Government once again have totally lost control of the public health messaging.

@bloodystupid

See my above posts and also look at what Germany and France are doing.

[quote Moonme]@MarshaBradyo A Government that gives clear guidance…not just ‘stay in, don’t stay in’ plus a safety net financially for not being able to open or loses I would imagine. Some proactive planning? France are saying only those vaccinated/negative test can enter bars etc We are saying make it up and see what happens…
And before we quote the ‘magic money tree’ let’s remember there’s always money there…they just choose how to spend it[/quote]
Hang on they can do the Covid Pass?

If they want to. Why don’t they do that?

The government are urging it and set it up so take advantage of the system of it’s wanted

Other nightclubs might really not want it

@PrincessNutNuts

You are right - what we want is:

'A competent government that mounts an effective Covid response'

Sadly we don't have that.

Spot on the people who say we are being asked to make judgement calls on protecting society at large. This should not and cannot be a responsibility only of individuals. The government must play a part.

I do feel sorry for Whitty and Valance.

I'd love it if one of them resigned/and or spoke out to say what they truly thought was best action at this point.

@MarshaBradyo

My risk is definitely lower double vaccinated than before

A large proportion of the people this government policy will put in hospital and/or in the ground will be double-vaccinated.

@QueenStromba That's the thing. It can turn either way, people may take precautions, or people think life with restriction is over and live free

without any precautions.

Either way, the consequences is on the public, not the government since they suggested we take precaution, but left the choice up to individual.

A large proportion of the people this government policy will put in hospital and/or in the ground will be double-vaccinated.

I don’t think it makes you immortal no. Everyone will have had it in older age groups.

Are you saying you don’t want people to be double vaccinated?

[quote KisstheTeapot14]@PrincessNutNuts

You are right - what we want is:

'A competent government that mounts an effective Covid response'

Sadly we don't have that.

Spot on the people who say we are being asked to make judgement calls on protecting society at large. This should not and cannot be a responsibility only of individuals. The government must play a part.

I do feel sorry for Whitty and Valance.

I'd love it if one of them resigned/and or spoke out to say what they truly thought was best action at this point.[/quote]
I thought Chris Whitty was more agitated and stuttery than we have ever seen him.

And he's the man who told us back in March 2020 that 80% of us were expected to get it, 20% expected to go to hospital, and 1% to sadly die.

So if he's rattled...

@jgw1

Please god no.

What would the tour bus slogan be this time?

Herd Immunity? Er....Yes and No?

Or

'We have decided to leave Covid as reciprocal arrangements are not in our favour'

Open to other suggestions.

Not meaning to derail a serious topic but I have to be able to laugh or I would cry.

@MarshaBradyo

A large proportion of the people this government policy will put in hospital and/or in the ground will be double-vaccinated.

I don’t think it makes you immortal no. Everyone will have had it in older age groups.

Are you saying you don’t want people to be double vaccinated?

No.

I'm saying your risk was lower with lower prevalence.

The problem with this Govt is that they always have to appease the nutjobs on the Right of the party. (As for Brexit, same for Covid). So they are telling us all that restrictions will no longer be enforced, whilst hoping we all have the good sense to continue to abide by them anyway.

Perhaps its best seen through a political rather than a health perspective. Key external stakeholders want the lockdown to end as do many MPs. Hence the political execution of Hancock for non-COVID reasons. Infections are not at a safe level and are rising. If the questions is 'if not now then when' then the health-based answer would be 'when infections are under control and ideally low'. Looking into the medium term, government don't want to be accountable for the even higher levels of infection, death and long COVID that will result but don't want to continue the lockdown hence have made the communications statements PPs have mentioned so the public will be at fault.

Arguably deliberate choices similar to the war metaphors during the early period of the pandemic. People expect casualties during wars so government might not be held to account to the same extent for decisions around PPE, lockdown always just too late, eat out to help out and so on.

I’d still prefer it. Very low risk double vaccinated than in heavy restrictions to keep prevalence low. No guarantee I wouldn’t get it if they continued on that path anyway.

@PrincessNutNuts

Yes if he's rattled, the rest of us certainly should be!

Trying to decide whether its a good idea for DS to go to school in the autumn. The rates will be off the chart in August.

Sadly this makes it hard to attend hospital appts as staff isolating or we feel its not safe (long term problems, not talking heart or stroke etc then you really should see a doc).

My worry is Long Covid for children, young people and potentially adults too. This is a much under estimated issue.

7% of children are having symptoms after 3 months.

''It is also equally true that we have limited knowledge of the long term effects of covid-19 infection. And in the case of infection, there has been limited (if any) monitoring of mild and asymptomatic cases, as these have been thought to be largely unproblematic. But we now know that people with mild or asymptomatic infection may nevertheless develop long term health complications.''

www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n1687

Whitty and co were not rattled. They are just sick of having to stand up there and answer the same stupid questions.

The message is clear - we’ve done what we can, we have a vaccine but it will never be 100% safe so sorry but some of you will still die. That’s the crux of it. Sad but true.

@Notsowise if they are sick of answering questions during a pandemic when that’s their job then they should resign…
‘We’ve done what we can’ is a ridiculous phrase, especially when they are saying it isn’t over! Look at other countries…why aren’t they saying the same if this is truly the case and isn’t just because Johnson is bored of this…

@Moonme I think once other countries catch up the vaccination they will. Even some states in Australia are thinking about just letting it out.

America were done with restrictions a long time ago.

I think the government now want the general public to make their own risk assessments. The government can't do that forever for you.

Do what you are comfortable with, nobody is forcing us in to nightclubs, you don't feel safe doings so then don't.

Want to wear a mask do that, don't want to wear a mask then do that.

The government can't micromanage your life whilst a endemic virus circulates.

You've been offered vaccines, told how to limit the spread 2m, wash hands, isolate of unwell.

Will everyone be cautious no. I mean the general public are generally stupid, but that's why you make personal choices to avoid idiots if need be.

Think of it this way, they are not opening up because covid is gone, they are opening up because there's now hospital beds available, make wise choices.

@PrincessNutNuts With all due respect most of what you are predicting is bollocks.

I don’t feel sorry for Vallance and Whitby , and they can’t hide behind saying” it’s a political decision” They have responsibilities as senior doctors and if they feel the path chosen will cause unnecessary deaths then they should say so and resign. They have the power to change the decision or at least not having a future where they will always be associated with it.
The way it’s all been handled will be extremely divisive. I feel very sorry for those staff and premises where folk want to continue to wear masks and be socially distanced - but they will have no rights to insist that the people using their premises comply with this. There will be a lot of resentment building up.
And as for the recommendation from the government that CEV people only go out at quiet times - how discriminatory is that .

@MistressOfEvilMaleficent you can’t have individual responsibilities for something that has a collective impact

@Lemonmelonsun

Messaging is ridiculous! It's the younger unvacinated who will be rammed into air less night clubs!!

Chris whitty seemed very odd yesterday.

Odd in what way? I couldn't bring myself to watch the update.

Surely CEV people were being careful anyway before the pandemic?

[quote Moonme]@MistressOfEvilMaleficent you can’t have individual responsibilities for something that has a collective impact[/quote]
But you are going to have to make personal choices about your own personal safety.

You can't control others, you can't stay locked up forever (well maybe you can, but most don't want to, if you do want to do that, then do that nobody is stopping you)

You can drive at 70mph on the motorway, you can't stop others driving at 90mph and crashing in to the back of you. You still drive on the motorway though, even though their choice to drive at 90mph has a "collective impact" on others.

However you choose to drive at 70mph because it's the responsible thing to do. So be responsible for yourself and others, but there will always be that 90mph driver. What are you going to do, take everyone's driving licences off them just incase they drive at 90mph?

@MistressOfEvilMaleficent we have laws and legislation for those things though?!
It’s not just because I think it’s the right thing to do…

All I know is that as an older vulnerable person, my life will be in isolation. Again.

I hope all the selfish, self-centred people are happy.