Feeling so low about this new world of vaccines

[blue12345]

Just wondering if anyone else is in the same boat as me? For many reasons, I've decided not to get the Covid vaccine. I' have all my vaccines and all my kids are vaccinated. I state this to show I'm not an anti-vaxxer, although I increasingly feel like one.

I'm feeling very isolated from my friends and family as a result of this. Everyone I meet asks me am I booked in yet, am I double-vaccinated. I don't bother getting into conversations about it , but it still causes me anxiety and has led to friction. A very close friend has asked me a few times have I got an appointment for my vaccine yet and I've tried to brush her off, as I think she will be unlikely to want to spend time around me after she finds out I'm not getting it. I've also found that lots of friends have cut back on their contact with me.

I am very comfortable with my decision, but I'm just so sad that we now live in a world where the segregation of vaccinated and unvaccinated people is allowed, in both interpersonal relations and also looking more and more likely that services like restaurants and travel will be similarly restricted.

So you can just vaccinate vulnerable but I’d prefer to live without any restrictions so for that it’s the vaccine to majority.

But you don’t know that. Hospitalisations were at very low levels without having even finished vaccinating the vulnerable. We could have finished vaccinating them and eased restrictions more and still not seen a huge rise in hospitalisations. The groups we’re vaccinating now (and for the last few months were unlikely to end up in hospital anyway.

@bumbleymummy

So you can just vaccinate vulnerable but I’d prefer to live without any restrictions so for that it’s the vaccine to majority.

But you don’t know that. Hospitalisations were at very low levels without having even finished vaccinating the vulnerable. We could have finished vaccinating them and eased restrictions more and still not seen a huge rise in hospitalisations. The groups we’re vaccinating now (and for the last few months were unlikely to end up in hospital anyway.

I don’t think you can say that definitively

I would say pressure to release right now is huge so whatever was being looked at was a factor in delay

@Bovrilly

I was simply responding to the idea that people will always choose to save a higher number of lives and I don’t agree, I think the length of natural life remaining along with the impact of what is required to save them are relevant.

And I was simply making the point that it doesn't really add to your argument against lockdown because thousands and thousands of people died who were not terminally ill or at the average life expectancy. The average YLL was 10 years per person in the UK. That's a lot of people who had more than a few months to live.

Ah, I see. I wasn’t arguing against lockdowns from the ‘how many deaths they caused’ angle. I was pointing out that they caused other harms too so we shouldn’t just compare deaths. You’ve argued that number of lives saved is the only important thing. I disagree.

I don’t think you can say that definitively

No, I can’t. But you can’t definitively say the opposite either.

True

We don’t know how it would have gone

But I can’t think of any country only vaccinating vulnerable and choosing to stop, no matter how good their healthcare

Has everyone got the wrong strategy?

You’ve argued that number of lives saved is the only important thing. I disagree.

I mean I guess I could have been more nuanced. But when talking about deaths from Covid vs deaths caused by lockdown, it's pretty obvious that YLL would not really make a difference to the argument. Unless you're saying that accidents inside the home etc might amount to more YLL than Covid, more than 1.5 million years in the UK?

@MarshaBradyo

We don’t know how it would have gone

But I can’t think of any country only vaccinating vulnerable and choosing to stop, no matter how good their healthcare

Has everyone got the wrong strategy?

Many countries haven’t even managed to vaccinate their vulnerable yet.

If people were genuinely concerned about new variants arising in unvaccinated populations etc then they would be more focussed on getting the vulnerable of other countries vaccinated rather than focussing on a few people in this country who don’t want it. I guess the ‘greater good’ only applies to your own country.

I wish we could be given the option to refuse and donate our dose tbh. I imagine a lot of people would and it would probably be seen as less ‘selfish’ then to be unvaccinated.

wish we could be given the option to refuse and donate our dose tbh. I imagine a lot of people would and it would probably be seen as less ‘selfish’ then to be unvaccinated

Being unvaccinated is about as selfish as it gets.

I’m not focusing on the few that don’t want it I just disagree on only needing to vaccinate vulnerable to not overwhelm capacity.

Btw you can donate to GAVI

www.gavi.org/donate

@Bovrilly

You’ve argued that number of lives saved is the only important thing. I disagree.

I mean I guess I could have been more nuanced. But when talking about deaths from Covid vs deaths caused by lockdown, it's pretty obvious that YLL would not really make a difference to the argument. Unless you're saying that accidents inside the home etc might amount to more YLL than Covid, more than 1.5 million years in the UK?

No, I wasn’t saying that. I don’t think the person who mentioned that originally was saying that either. I do think it will be a while before we see the true cost of lockdown though.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

wish we could be given the option to refuse and donate our dose tbh. I imagine a lot of people would and it would probably be seen as less ‘selfish’ then to be unvaccinated

Being unvaccinated is about as selfish as it gets.

Really? I can think of far more selfish things. Such as being low risk but still wanting to be vaccinated even though there are vulnerable people dying in other countries because there aren’t vaccines available to them.

Each to their own though

We need to reach herd immunity. Not having the vaccine is stopping that happening.

Well, I think that point has been addressed several times on this thread but I’ll just say that natural infection also confers immunity so someone who is unvaccinated can still be immune and contribute to herd immunity.

Many countries haven’t even managed to vaccinate their vulnerable yet. If people were genuinely concerned about new variants arising in unvaccinated populations etc then they would be more focussed on getting the vulnerable of other countries vaccinated rather than focussing on a few people in this country who don’t want it. I guess the ‘greater good’ only applies to your own country.

@bumbleymummy

Has been referenced many times before, but sorting out the UK situation will help improve things globally. For a multitude of reasons (some the fault of our government and some just to do with the geography/demographics of the UK), we have had a terrible time containing coronavirus. Our cases are now beginning to soar again, and will very quickly lead to the emergence of new variants which will then be exported across the world just like last year. This has the potential to completely undo the good work done by other countries in their vaccination drives.

Also important to note many countries can't accept the mRNA vaccine as they don't have the cold chain infrastructure in place. Far better to focus on tweaking and producing more AZ as that is actually of use to them.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

wish we could be given the option to refuse and donate our dose tbh. I imagine a lot of people would and it would probably be seen as less ‘selfish’ then to be unvaccinated

Being unvaccinated is about as selfish as it gets.

The word selfish has been thrown around so much during the pandemic that is is losing its meaning. You also wont change any minds with name calling either.

Things is - everyone is inherently selfish in their own way, and some kore than others.

Is it selfish to have more than two kids - as you're contributing to overpopulation the planet and as we have a climate crisis?

Many other examples I could give.

I wasn’t name calling. Selfish is an adjective.

Forgod sake she isn't selfish at all!!!!! What the hell is so wrong about wanting to wait till the trials are over till she decides to have it or not!!!!

Honestly mumsnet is so pro covid-19 vaccine it's scary! Talk about stepford vaccine housewives. I don't care if i offend anyone, I am so sick of this self ritchoius BS just because you've had the vaccine it doesn't make you a hero, so take of the capes. She isn't walking covid.

Just a reminder: vaccinated can still catch, transmit and die of covid.

I am sick to death of seeing posts like this and the OP getting bullied, shouted down and belittled.

What a world we live in.

Talk about stepford vaccine housewives

Haha at all this.

@whymewhyme has done a fabulous job at undermining the Op's point here.

It's this attitude that pisses people off.

Herd immunity only comes if you have immunity from a virus . The vaccines don’t give you immunity!!!

No. We largely have herd immunity from measles, mumps and polio as they are very rare. This has been brought about by vaccines, so they certainly do contribute to herd immunity.

Our cases are now beginning to soar again, and will very quickly lead to the emergence of new variants which will then be exported across the world just like last year.

Sorry, I call BS on this. There are countries much larger than the U.K. with soaring cases and 10s of millions of unvaccinated. I reckon new variants are more likely to emerge there.

The vaccines don’t give you immunity!!!

What do you think the purpose of a vaccine is then?