Online emergency meeting of British scientists and politicians tomorrow

[JanFebAnyMonth]

www.johnsnowmemo.com/summitdeclaration.html?fbclid=IwAR1ip9v81nlZUTBIN46cKEOhvqmr3n2ISfEGYsUI8WKkb7ZEMnoM6jUEwPQ

JOHN SNOW MEMORANDUM
EMERGENCY SUMMIT AGAINST MASS INFECTION
THURSDAY 8th JULY, 10:00 am

We are holding an emergency summit to outline our concerns about the UK government’s current strategy to abandon most restrictions in England on the 19th July in the midst of a surging pandemic. We have outlined our concerns in a letter to The Lancet (embargoed until 23.30hrs UK time on Wednesday 7 July 2021), now signed by more than 120 of the world's leading scientists. At the summit we will outline our grave concerns about the UK government’s dangerous and reckless strategy, and the urgent steps we need to take to protect the public.

PROGRAMME

Statement from Scientists and Medical Doctors
Professor Trish Greenhalgh, Professor of Primary Care Health Sciences, Medical Sciences Division, University of Oxford
Dr. Richard Horton, Editor-in-Chief of The Lancet
Professor Kailash Chand, Honorary Vice President of the British Medical Association and former deputy chair of the BMA
Dr. Deepti Gurdasani, Clinical Epidemiologist and Senior Lecturer in Machine Learning, Queen Mary University of London

Q&A session
Panel will include all speakers and:
Dr. Rachel Clarke, NHS palliative care doctor and author
Sir David King, former Chief Scientific adviser and chair of Independent SAGE
Professor Susan Michie, Professor of Health Psychology, University College London and member of Independent SAGE
Caroline Lucas, MP, Former Leader of the Green Party of England and Wales
Richard Burgon, MP, Labour MP for Leeds East
Debbie Abrahams, MP, Labour MP for Oldham East and Saddleworth
Philippa Whitford, MP, Scottish National Party MP for Central Ayrshire
Barbara Keeley, MP, Labour MP for Worsley and Eccles South

This event will be livestreamed at: and on Twitter at @allthecitizens.

We will be taking questions from the press and public. Please contact us at [email protected] if you'd like to ask a question.

Please join us at 10am tomorrow

Wow, the outrage over this is astonishing!

@Twintwix @PopcornMuncher et al, have you read their letter (published in lancet) which sets out their five key concerns about removing restrictions, and their suggested policies instead?

By all means disagree, but it seems like right now you're just doing it for the sake of it and don't actually know what you're arguing against.

@yeOldeTrout

I hope they each pledge to donate all of their entire annual salaries to reduce the national debt - or at least pay for hospitality businesses to keep everyone on furlough.

You don’t seem to get that those exercising caution don’t want lockdowns and if they’d been listened to early enough every time there would not have been one. And those sectors would have suffered far less. Same goes for the future. Just look at the countries that take measures early enough. Hospitality doing great.

I don’t know how hospitality will survive when a large number of staff and customers are ill with Covid or isolating or have long Covid. It’ll backfire.

@ollyollyoxenfree actually yes I have read it now. Some of it is absurd beyond belief. Wait until we have offered vaccine to everyone AND have a high uptake? How long is a piece of string? As for the stuff on introducing air filtration systems into schools - have you any idea how long such a project would take and how much incompetence would be involved in installing such things? I'm afraid we can't hold off on life until the schools have new air flow systems that's years away. I'm all for keeping masks personally but let's remember that all of the rules have basically failed because as soon as they are lifted, cases rebound. It's not a long term way to manage this. Masks should stay as should some social distancing but controlling people's lives to a ridiculous degree is not sustainable for so many reasons. Today the news in Scotland was that cases are at an all time high (League table leader of Europe - applause for almighty Sturgeon) because of a lack of natural immunity to Covid. Scientists aligned to Scottish Gov say Scotland is a victims of its own success - strict rules meant lower case rates so now more people left to still infect. The real problem is the case rate in Glasgow - which has had the strictest rules in Europe FOR MONTHS and is now the leader of Europe in cases. It just can't be controlled by rules like the ones you want as as soon as there's any freedom, the virus bounces back.

[quote Twintwix]@ollyollyoxenfree actually yes I have read it now. Some of it is absurd beyond belief. Wait until we have offered vaccine to everyone AND have a high uptake? How long is a piece of string? As for the stuff on introducing air filtration systems into schools - have you any idea how long such a project would take and how much incompetence would be involved in installing such things? I'm afraid we can't hold off on life until the schools have new air flow systems that's years away. I'm all for keeping masks personally but let's remember that all of the rules have basically failed because as soon as they are lifted, cases rebound. It's not a long term way to manage this. Masks should stay as should some social distancing but controlling people's lives to a ridiculous degree is not sustainable for so many reasons. Today the news in Scotland was that cases are at an all time high (League table leader of Europe - applause for almighty Sturgeon) because of a lack of natural immunity to Covid. Scientists aligned to Scottish Gov say Scotland is a victims of its own success - strict rules meant lower case rates so now more people left to still infect. The real problem is the case rate in Glasgow - which has had the strictest rules in Europe FOR MONTHS and is now the leader of Europe in cases. It just can't be controlled by rules like the ones you want as as soon as there's any freedom, the virus bounces back.[/quote]
I agree pretty much. Plus the ask for smaller classes. Where do we move the students to?

@WouldBeGood

People should be happy vaccines work and so we’re getting freed.

Well, you are, I’m in Scotland 🙄

Don’t get the weeping and hand wringing.

If you’re worried, stay home.

Herd immunity of the population requires 85% of the population (not just adults) to be fully jabbed. Less than 50% are fully jabbed.

The vaccine doesn’t work for everyone especially very vulnerable and immuno compromised. Must some lose all restrictions so others don’t wear masks or distance? If we treat them as second class citizens and potentially cull them?

The morbidity of long Covid and brain and organ issues is real in a significant number of the population. Even in mild cases. Whitty admitted this. Letting it rip affects 7/8% kids snd up to 25% adults long term.

Letting it rip risks a variant developing like we developed a variant when we let it rip in schools in autumn and like Brazil, South Africa and India. Only this time it has the chance to learn to evade the vaccine.

Removing all restrictions right now is nuts and negligent.

It’ll potentially see our gov in an international court one day in the future.

Marsha

Portable hepa air filters are available to cover large rooms and easy to unpack from the box.

Where’s the harm in improving the air for our children?

It would help many kids with asthma etc and stop the co2 build up in cramped classrooms causing fatigue. Great in cities and busy roads too,

Why are you against a instant easy fix that makes children’s lives better?

Sorry that’s for twintwix

@ollyollyoxenfree actually yes I have read it now. Some of it is absurd beyond belief. Wait until we have offered vaccine to everyone AND have a high uptake? How long is a piece of string? As for the stuff on introducing air filtration systems into schools - have you any idea how long such a project would take and how much incompetence would be involved in installing such things? I'm afraid we can't hold off on life until the schools have new air flow systemshmm that's years away. I'm all for keeping masks personally but let's remember that all of the rules have basically failed because as soon as they are lifted, cases rebound. It's not a long term way to manage this. Masks should stay as should some social distancing but controlling people's lives to a ridiculous degree is not sustainable for so many reasons. Today the news in Scotland was that cases are at an all time high (League table leader of Europe - applause for almighty Sturgeon) because of a lack of natural immunity to Covid. Scientists aligned to Scottish Gov say Scotland is a victims of its own success - strict rules meant lower case rates so now more people left to still infect. The real problem is the case rate in Glasgow - which has had the strictest rules in Europe FOR MONTHS and is now the leader of Europe in cases. It just can't be controlled by rules like the ones you want as as soon as there's any freedom, the virus bounces back.

@Twintwix you seem to be spoiling for a fight here. You realise I'm not one of the coauthors, and nor did I say I agree with the points made?

I was just pointing out you and other posters hadn't even read the manuscript and were getting up in arms. Now you have, it was interesting to read your views on it.

I don't think removing all restrictions on the 19th is sensible in the slightest and a more measured approach is needed, but equally I don't agree with what they've set out as a solution.

Levoit Air Purifier for Home with H13 True HEPA Filter, CADR 221 m³/h, Ozone Free, Removes 99.97% of Dust, Smell, Pollen, Allergies, Smoke, Compact & Quiet Air Cleaner for Bedroom Living Room Office www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B088LWDNVL/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_CBP5R236JW4PXWQPVDDK?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

£90 for a 7mx7m room

WINIX ZERO S Air Purifier. CADR 390 m³/h (up to 99 m²), HEPA Filter H13, Reduce 99.97% Viruses, Bacteria, and Allergies. With PlasmaWave Technology. HEPA Air Purifier for Home and Office. www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08ZJPQXBK/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_W0KB2YX1NXQRWQ0JNA4E?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

£200 for a really good brand and quality 10m x10m room. Minus tax for schools £160

So it is easy and affordable if the govehi spend£3.7million on a propaganda campaign to say schools are safe could be bothered

@wildewoodz are there enough for each classroom in the country? I wouldn't have thought soAnd does anyone have any proof that such devices do anything remotely useful in prevent Covid transmission?

@ollyollyoxenfree actually your earlier post was obnoxious - I'm just replying, not spoiling for a fight. I also agree lifting ALL restrictions is bizarre (happy to have masks and distancing to some degree) but that paper really is nonsense! The suggestions seem utterly desperate and without practicality.

And so we edge ever closer to Idiocracy. I should be dumbfounded, but then I remember the bell curve and how half of all people are on the left...

I'm beginning to hate living in this country with all the hate spewed at people who are respected within their fields. Hate it. So awful.

Like the hate against Professor Karol Sikora. Where a cancer specialist with several decades experience was called a quack.

[quote Twintwix]@wildewoodz are there enough for each classroom in the country? I wouldn't have thought soAnd does anyone have any proof that such devices do anything remotely useful in prevent Covid transmission?

@ollyollyoxenfree actually your earlier post was obnoxious - I'm just replying, not spoiling for a fight. I also agree lifting ALL restrictions is bizarre (happy to have masks and distancing to some degree) but that paper really is nonsense! The suggestions seem utterly desperate and without practicality.[/quote]
Of course there are. Many brands and models.

Many other countries have already done it.

Your defeatism is kinda rude to our children.

[quote Twintwix]@wildewoodz are there enough for each classroom in the country? I wouldn't have thought soAnd does anyone have any proof that such devices do anything remotely useful in prevent Covid transmission?

@ollyollyoxenfree actually your earlier post was obnoxious - I'm just replying, not spoiling for a fight. I also agree lifting ALL restrictions is bizarre (happy to have masks and distancing to some degree) but that paper really is nonsense! The suggestions seem utterly desperate and without practicality.[/quote]
Oh and yes the US already carried out extensive research and found it cuts transmission by at least 50%.

That’s why many states are fitting them.

Why do you instantly dismiss measures that help children.

Bit weird.

And re long Covid - watch that get dismissed by the Govt and their scientific advisors when the post-pandemic disability benefit claims roll in. It will be found to by "psychosomatic" and hardly anyone will be entitled to disability benefits for it. Guaranteed

YY @Twintwix Ive said exactly the same thing three or four times on other threads.

Air filtration is nowhere near that simple unfortunately. I remember reading last year that even in hospitals with the best filtration systems, covid could still be detected at transmissible levels.

This study is quite detailed but from last year, there will be many more, but I am not looking them up now.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7489049/#!po=0.364964

School classrooms are not closed systems, Hepatitis filtration uses a lot of electricity and has high maintenance costs. Small errors or poor maintenance can lead to increased spread.

It isnt so simple.

Hepa

They’ll be burning books soon

The equivilant of Fahrenheit 451 has already happened on here when the discussion thread on A State of Fear by Laura Dodsworth was derailed then deleted.

Welcome to our world!

@MercyBooth

And re long Covid - watch that get dismissed by the Govt and their scientific advisors when the post-pandemic disability benefit claims roll in. It will be found to by "psychosomatic" and hardly anyone will be entitled to disability benefits for it. Guaranteed

YY @Twintwix Ive said exactly the same thing three or four times on other threads.

Which makes no sense, since generally you tend towards policies that support as many people as possible getting long covid.

They’re just collateral damage as long as you don’t have to restrict your life. You have to admit it’s a bit hypocritical of you to judge the government on this point given how vocal you have been against restrictions over the last year.

Oh my God, isn't Trish the one who lines her facemasks with pantyliners?

I'm tempted to watch a recording just for LOLZ if I can find one.

@ollyollyoxenfree

thanks for the heads up *@JanFebAnyMonth*

I'll be interested to see what they're proposing. Worth battling through the the vitriol in this thread to point out there are more cautious alternatives to lifting restrictions which don't equal "lockdown forever"

This.