Online emergency meeting of British scientists and politicians tomorrow

[JanFebAnyMonth]

www.johnsnowmemo.com/summitdeclaration.html?fbclid=IwAR1ip9v81nlZUTBIN46cKEOhvqmr3n2ISfEGYsUI8WKkb7ZEMnoM6jUEwPQ

JOHN SNOW MEMORANDUM
EMERGENCY SUMMIT AGAINST MASS INFECTION
THURSDAY 8th JULY, 10:00 am

We are holding an emergency summit to outline our concerns about the UK government’s current strategy to abandon most restrictions in England on the 19th July in the midst of a surging pandemic. We have outlined our concerns in a letter to The Lancet (embargoed until 23.30hrs UK time on Wednesday 7 July 2021), now signed by more than 120 of the world's leading scientists. At the summit we will outline our grave concerns about the UK government’s dangerous and reckless strategy, and the urgent steps we need to take to protect the public.

PROGRAMME

Statement from Scientists and Medical Doctors
Professor Trish Greenhalgh, Professor of Primary Care Health Sciences, Medical Sciences Division, University of Oxford
Dr. Richard Horton, Editor-in-Chief of The Lancet
Professor Kailash Chand, Honorary Vice President of the British Medical Association and former deputy chair of the BMA
Dr. Deepti Gurdasani, Clinical Epidemiologist and Senior Lecturer in Machine Learning, Queen Mary University of London

Q&A session
Panel will include all speakers and:
Dr. Rachel Clarke, NHS palliative care doctor and author
Sir David King, former Chief Scientific adviser and chair of Independent SAGE
Professor Susan Michie, Professor of Health Psychology, University College London and member of Independent SAGE
Caroline Lucas, MP, Former Leader of the Green Party of England and Wales
Richard Burgon, MP, Labour MP for Leeds East
Debbie Abrahams, MP, Labour MP for Oldham East and Saddleworth
Philippa Whitford, MP, Scottish National Party MP for Central Ayrshire
Barbara Keeley, MP, Labour MP for Worsley and Eccles South

This event will be livestreamed at: and on Twitter at @allthecitizens.

We will be taking questions from the press and public. Please contact us at [email protected] if you'd like to ask a question.

Please join us at 10am tomorrow

@Bizawit

Always assume you are going to be wrong about things, but a bit less wrong each time - that's where ideas and solutions come from

Oh yeh cos that’s exactly the kind of humility, reserve and caution the scientific advisors who have been informing covid policy for the last 18 months have been demonstrating. Give me a break.

To be honest, the scientific advisors have been the ones with the intelligence and the knowledge.

Mr Johnson was the one who didn't turn up for 4 or 5 COBRA meetings at the start of the crisis.

And I think "humility, reserve and caution" sums up Christ Whitty quite well.

Making new theories is a very rare thing - a theory is only a thing when there is consensus. And as soon as there is one we must seek to destroy it!

Having said that Newton's Laws can still get humans to the Moon and back but trying to make GPS work with only Newtonian mechanics would be a hiding to nothing.

My dream is that in 2100 students will look at textbooks and think 'EURRGH they used THAT as radiation shielding! THat's yucky!'
That way there will be people better than me and there will be a future.

@JanFebAnyMonth

I was just posting a notice.....

Thank you, it's much appreciated

@Briset

bizawit can you explain why you called them "scientists?"

Do you think they are pretending to be well informed?

I used the quotation marks because I think this idea that a singular “Science” can/ should dictate/ determine government policy right now is very very very bad science, and , imv, no truly decent scientist would think such a thing. So yes, these people - whilst they may have PhD’s in their specific, narrow field- are (imv) better considered dangerous ideologues than credible scientists. For further information on my perspective I refer you to the previous link, where the appropriate role of science, as I see it, is set out more articulately and in-depth. www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-science-can-and-cannot-do-in-a-time-of-pandemic/?fbclid=IwAR0QbXkG2QnqH-A9Hm5tHllUgQ7qD4QgH1pp57X06muRjHjbtZaVFiM8Ruc

There are the two extremes on this thread:

@Bizawit and others who have no clue what science is and what it purports to do.

And @SamusIsAGirl, who thinks that politics is one big optimisation problem and, with a big enough computer and bright enough programmers, politicians should be obsolete.

In reality, we need scientists to predict outcomes from data within probability bands. We also need politicians who can weigh competing claims on limited national resources. Scientists should be strongly advising, but politicians have the right to reject the advice if they feel that a competing claim (economics, childhood mental health etc) is a higher priority.

@yeOldeTrout

I hope they each pledge to donate all of their entire annual salaries to reduce the national debt - or at least pay for hospitality businesses to keep everyone on furlough.

👏👏👏

@SamusIsAGirl

Bizawit What are your occupations and interests? You are clearly passionate about your views - it would be useful since my colleagues and I need to be able to find the best ways of disseminating information and keeping people such as you informed and interested. While there is no limit to information available online there is also no lower limit and it can be a struggle to keep informed even with the best access.

I don’t need you to condescend to “inform” me , thank you. I consider myself very well informed. I work in research.

whyisitsodifficult of course scientists have various different opinions but this does not mean they are "scientists"

The quote marks imply that they are pretending to be something they are not.

bizawit please can you say WHY you think they are pretending to be scientists?

You might not agree with them (I don't entirely agree with them either)
There might be umpteen different opinions about what to do (all valid)
But that does not mean that they are "scientists". Scientists are scientists. Educated to a high level and with ethics. You may not like it but their opinions are more worth listening to than the emotional opinions of those who have no scientific background.

Thank you for doing this.

From what I have understood, And i am not stupid but perhaps hard to reach as we live in an area of multiple economic (not cultural) deprivation.

Those who are disabled, black, ethinic minority and excluded in other ways will be hit hardest at covid and like myself actually very frightened by this, as single parent etc.

So thank you for posting here.

we are listening.

will try to join tomoz

please keep posting

Science can only work with dissent after all. It was Albert Einstien that founded CARA - Committee for At-Risk Academics in 1933 in Britain.
Keep your eyes on China, Hungary and America (where a climate scientist had armed police break into her house with her kids because she refused to comply with climate changed as a banned term).

I'm not condescending. I do have AS which can give a somewhat didactic tone.

thanks for the heads up @JanFebAnyMonth

I'll be interested to see what they're proposing. Worth battling through the the vitriol in this thread to point out there are more cautious alternatives to lifting restrictions which don't equal "lockdown forever"

They better not back pedal on the rules again. I wont be listening if they do.

@TheReluctantPhoenix thanks for that incredibly rude remark. I know exactly what science is and what it purports to do.

My issue is with the scientific advisors who are very clearly stepping outside the boundaries of that, and wading into all kinds of areas of policy-determination , concerning which they have no expertise or legitimacy on which to base their pronouncements.

Well I hope they give alternative solutions that cover everything and not just reducing Covid cases.

Woodbegood- we do have a very effective vaccine but in our area missed appointments are currently running at 60% - no point in having a vaccine if no one bloody takes it.

No, there will always need to be politicians - I've read enough science fiction to see scenarios that are horribly close to being realized now. Like the Isaac Asimov short story 'A Evitable Conflict'

Or the computer game Alpha Centuri - China is too much like the Human Hive with Cybernetic as the Future Society socialogical option.

(politicians don't read enough science fiction - some Asimov is dated but it holds up well, as does Attwood and McCaffrey)

please can you say WHY you think they are pretending to be scientists

I have, several times. Or do you mean what motivates them ? Attention, power , the limelight perhaps…

@Viviennemary

They better not back pedal on the rules again. I wont be listening if they do.

Don't listen then. Back pedalling is a BJ speciality after all.

@Bizawit,

How do you feel that the scientific advisers have exceeded their remit.

They advise, they do not decide. And I am sure that their advice to government contains all the usual scientific caveats and probability bands.

@SamusIsAGirl

I'm not condescending. I do have AS which can give a somewhat didactic tone.

Noted. I may have misread your intentions there. Apologies x

Let's see what they have to say...

@yeOldeTrout

I hope they each pledge to donate all of their entire annual salaries to reduce the national debt - or at least pay for hospitality businesses to keep everyone on furlough.

Why?

Thank you @JanFebAnyMonth I'll be watching.

IF the billionaires did that, they could and would still be billionaires since just having that sum of money draws in interest like a galactic black hole - it's almost chump change.

Also, billionaires aren't a sign of success, there a sign of a gamebreaking glitch