Let's face it, they're letting it rip.

[ZednotZee]

Aren't they?

The vaccines aren't seemingly preventing transmission.

We are opening up on the 19th.

This is being done presumably as the public appetite for further lockdowns will be nil come October/November so best to get it over with now and have heard immunity come the autumn.

They won't say it but its becoming very clear that the immunocompromised need to continue to shield til the rest of us have contracted and got over the infection.

@ZednotZee

They also don't give a shit about those on immunosuppressive meds for whom the vaccine may as well have been a saline injection.

Do you have any citation for this please?

I think there will be issues with CEV being forced back to work, and having to work in places without ventilation/masks/distancing
I've spoke to my consultant today who said I was best to carry on wearing a filtered mask around people and is supporting me to continue WFH but I'm likely to have to go via occupational health to do so

It's all a bit... ok you were shielding, yes the vaccine might not work but off back to work you go, and some people don't have much choice. I don't want to be in an office with no windows/ventilation and people within a foot of me, no masks etc

🔴🟠🟡🟢🔵🟣⚫️⚪️🟤

These are the circles that we go round in hourly, daily, weekly, monthly.

Some people genuinely like the restrictions but thankfully common sense has has prevailed.

*ZednotZee your number of 14% needing to be extremely careful is based on flawed logic.

Many of those who don't have any antibodies will be in low risk groups and some of those who are high risk do have antibodies but these will be insufficient to*

As I'm sure you are astute another to appreciate the percentage entirely academic.

There are a minority of the population who, despite double vaxxing remain at great risk of death from covid.
Now, all that I am advocating for is a nod to those people, from the government that freedom day is essentially a misnomer for them, so that they may proceed with a level of caution which is imformed and acceptable to them as individuals.

I don't think that is an unreasonable request.

@MayCup blood cancer but you get the idea
A study in March found that three weeks after the first dose of the Pfizer jab, the antibody response was only seen in 13% of people with blood cancer, compared with 39% of people with solid cancers and 97% without cancer
Source is blood cancer U.K.

@TheKeatingFive

If Covid is a huge threat to a clinically vulnerable child then I cannot understand why their Drs wouldn’t be exploring all avenues possible to get them a vaccine. It is approved for over 12s and channels exist to give it to under 12s if needs be.

DS (7) was due to be on a trial for AstraZeneca in March before there were concerns, nothing since, although perhaps there are trials we don't know about.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/06/data-predicting-2m-uk-summer-covid-cases-prompts-health-fears

"Two million people could contract Covid this summer, potentially meaning up to 10 million must isolate in just six weeks, Guardian analysis shows, prompting warnings over risks to health and disruption to the economy.

The figures come as Sajid Javid, the health secretary, said England was entering “uncharted territory” in its wholesale scrapping of lockdown rules from 19 July. New infections could easily rise above 100,000 a day over the summer, he said, more than at any point in the pandemic."

The problem is that red, this is being called free on day when Chris whitty used the words "go" because actually its getting the pain and wave done now day!

And as that pp posted, what about poor people on tubes or buses etc..

@ZednotZee

They also don't give a shit about those on immunosuppressive meds for whom the vaccine may as well have been a saline injection.

But what do you want them to do then? We all continue to lockdown for a few? Lockdown forever just in case? We can't keep locking down. It isn't that they don't care but we have to open up sometime. I think they are trying to get the vaccinations out for children as quick as they can.

Chris Whitty from last night's press conference:

'At a certain point, you move to the situation where instead of actually averting hospitalisations and deaths, you move over to just delaying them,' he said.

'So you're not actually changing the number of people who will go to hospital or die, you may change when they happen.

'There is quite a strong view by many people, including myself actually, that going in the summer has some advantages, all other things being equal, to opening up into the autumn when schools are going back and when we're heading into the winter period when the NHS tends to be under greatest pressure for many other reasons.'

I actually think this is planned. They want cases to rise now. A mild dose of covid will act as a booster for many before we enter the winter and prevent deaths later in the year. Not saying I agree with this approach but it does seem a deliberate to get us to herd immunity more quickly.

@Indigopearl, I am no epidemiologist but just sharing epidemiologist Deepti Gurdasani says the logic for opening now before winter is flawed. She wrote a good Twitter thread on it. twitter.com/dgurdasani1/status/1412154137085624320?s=21

@cleocleo16

Go back and read my posts.

I'm all for letting it rip. Just with one very simple proviso; candour.

DS (7) was due to be on a trial for AstraZeneca in March before there were concerns, nothing since, although perhaps there are trials we don't know about.

It’s possible for under 12s to be give Pfizer with the say so of their consultant. I know a 7 year old who has had it.

@MilkAndBiscuits

How long are the vulnerable expected to shield?

Non vulnerable people have no idea how hard fully shielding is

How long are the non vulnerable expected to face restrictions and lockdowns? What's the alternative? Never open up?

Europe doesn’t currently have 28,000 cases daily. They are running in the hundreds. They are opening up but keeping mandatory masking across many areas. Also their vaccination programme is fast catching up with U.K. Germany currently vaccinating approx 800,000 a day, U.K., 250,000.

Germany today has downgraded the UK meaning that Brits can travel to there again. (With some restrictions of course).

Delta is on the increase. Spain and Portugal have high numbers of daily cases and are not that far behind the UK re Delta spread. Greece had a massive rise in cases today.

They can't yet afford for it to spread as much as their vaccination rates are lower, but it won't be long now.

But it is spreading in Europe and the restrictions they have in place will do little to stop it.

@RedToothBrush

Chris Whitty from last night's press conference:

'At a certain point, you move to the situation where instead of actually averting hospitalisations and deaths, you move over to just delaying them,' he said.

'So you're not actually changing the number of people who will go to hospital or die, you may change when they happen.

'There is quite a strong view by many people, including myself actually, that going in the summer has some advantages, all other things being equal, to opening up into the autumn when schools are going back and when we're heading into the winter period when the NHS tends to be under greatest pressure for many other reasons.'

Epidemiologist Deepti Gurdasani argues this reasoning is flawed. She wrote an interesting Twitter thread on it.

twitter.com/dgurdasani1/status/1412154137085624320?s=21

@NotMyCat thank you

Come the autumn/winter, therecwill not b3a repeat of last year. The vulnerable have all been double jabbed, and all adults will have been double jabbed by then. With a booster probably in the winter for the vulnerable. There will be very few deaths. the ones that will die will be those who have refused to have the vaccine.

@TheKeatingFive

DS (7) was due to be on a trial for AstraZeneca in March before there were concerns, nothing since, although perhaps there are trials we don't know about.

It’s possible for under 12s to be give Pfizer with the say so of their consultant. I know a 7 year old who has had it.

My understanding is no vaccine has been approved for any child under 12, we last saw the GOSH team on Monday, but I will ask again when we see them next week. I don't think even trials have happened for any vaccine in the UK for under 12s (based on his consultant and DH who works in this field) but they possibly have elsewhere. I will of course investigate.

@mrsanflowerpot thank you for not being a dick about my now clearly ridiculous initial ramblings. And I am sorry

I'm an HCP

My colleagues have been double vaccinated with Pfizer since March.
Half of our staff have contracted covid within the last fortnight.

this is seriously scary 😨

@cleocleo16 I don't want lockdown. What I do want is understanding and choice
From businesses to support their CEV employees and enable them to continue WFH is they want, or to come back to work safely
Obviously I can wear a mask, which I will and a FFP2 one if I am somewhere inside, but people to still give a bit of room and understand that some people are still wary and vulnerable. I don't like asking people to move back in case they get aggressive but I'm really conscious of distance

More studies are ongoing (and needed) for immunocompromised people in how effective the vaccine is. If it was realistic then free antibody tests for anyone who is immunocompromised would be nice!
Basically as blood cancer put it, people to be considerate because their freedom day is our day that freedoms get more restricted, not less and some people will be choosing to go back to shielding

Personally I am pro opening up but I don't understand how it's going to work with track and trace going on for another month.
We have worked all through and kept business open by keeping clients outside and working in pods so there were pods to keep going if one pod affected by track and trace .
For the first time since this happened just last week a team member tested positive so we are down to 25 pc capacity and emergency work only ,
Come 19th July clients will be expecting to come back in to the building , maskless and be in a confined space with staff members for at least 15 minutes.
With rates rising quickly I can't see it being too long before we get hit with track and trace and likely have to close completely.
I have no issues with being in contact with people, just genuinely confused as to how this can be workable

@Livelovebehappy

Sadly ots not that simple because for a vulnerable minority the vaccines are just not that effective.

I wish it were only the non vaxxed that had to take their chances wholly without a modicum of protection. That would make things much more palatable, for all of us.

But it is spreading in Europe and the restrictions they have in place will do little to stop it.

Agree can’t stop it but they are being able to delay it in large numbers until more people will be double-jabbed.

Quoting journalist Ian Dunt:

“ We don’t know which way it’ll go. Maybe we’ll get lucky and no new variant will emerge, or enter the country, or at least not one which undermines our vaccine efforts still further. Maybe the number of hospitalisations and deaths will remain at an acceptable level – although of course we have no idea what the government’s assessment of acceptable deaths actually is.

But once again, that’s the game we’re playing. One of luck, rather than caution. And if we’re not lucky, what guarantees do we have about the government behaving sensibly? None whatsoever. They will take the next crucial decision as foolishly and irresponsibly as they did when they excluded India from the red list or lifted the requirements on masks.

Each stage of the decision-making on this issue is complex and unprecedented. No-one really knows what the right answer is. But the basic problem is that the government’s approach is perpetually self-interested, foolhardy and simplistic. It’s a question of trust. And they have done nothing to earn it.”