Let's face it, they're letting it rip.

[ZednotZee]

Aren't they?

The vaccines aren't seemingly preventing transmission.

We are opening up on the 19th.

This is being done presumably as the public appetite for further lockdowns will be nil come October/November so best to get it over with now and have heard immunity come the autumn.

They won't say it but its becoming very clear that the immunocompromised need to continue to shield til the rest of us have contracted and got over the infection.

Agree that this is what they are probably doing, and that they should be more transparent about it. But I keep seeing posts like this, on MN and elsewhere, where posters urge a slower pace of unlocking, more caution, ongoing restrictions etc… but are always very coy about suggesting when it should all end. In truth it will never just be ‘a few more weeks’. It’s been ‘a few more weeks’ since April 2020, and yet here we are. There will always be a new variant; an unexpected surge somewhere in the country; a new booster dose that’s required; calls to vaccinate the entire world population before we can reopen…

I actually find it quite disingenuous in some cases, where the people being so stubbornly vague about timescales for their desired restrictions clearly mean they should be in place forever but just won’t admit it, as on some level they must know that this means a reduced quality of life for the entire population.

The government, and we as a society, are in a very unenviable position. There are no good answers here. What’s clear to me, though, is that we can’t live indefinitely under a ‘tyranny of safety’, where we continue to chase the impossible dream of zero covid deaths ever. It won’t happen; we will never be collectively ‘safe’ from covid and people will continue to die - it’s horrible but it’s inevitable.

Like everyone else on this thread I feel terribly for the CEV/immunosuppressed, who should be getting way more honest information and support, but, like it or not we are having this third wave, and surely better to relax things in the brief window of opportunity we have now than in the autumn, when other winter viruses begin to surge again.

@RedToothBrush

There are still risks for the clinically vulnerable, still vulnerable people who haven't been vaccinated, still clinically vulnerable children not even offered a vaccine.

There is also the issue of waning immunity towards August/ September ( I guess we'll find out more about that as we approach that time)

There is enough vulnerability still remaining to make a good argument for proceeding cautiously, as I think Whitty & Vallance would have liked.

Ideally, we would capitalise on the summer and do our best to make the most of it as safely as possible.

Op I agree I can also cope with restrictions as long as they get lifted to give us a break, this is the break. There is very little I can't do right now.

I have been to the theatre, large meet up outside broken down into groups etc (work)
Been on holiday (UK), can eat out, pubs, going to art thing soon.
Dd are face to face with teachers, friends etc.
But...

I would prefer reassurances that we will surf this accordingly? So after this winter scientists should know how long the vaccine lasts, how it mutates, more about transmission, how to fight it etc? Have far more actuate lat flow tests and game changers so we truly don't have to worry about it any more.

I understand the logic of getting through this wave now but I can't understand the logic of not reassuring us that measures are being put in place to shore us up for winter?
Eg ventilation systems for school?
Better heating and encouraging windows open? Which is the cheapest and easier way to combat covid and reduce the viral load.
Making hospitals covid safe with rigid infection control?
Etc etc.
It feels like thoughtless slops as usual and after Dominic Cummings insights into the working of no 10 I'd say they are shit scared again...

@percheron67

I think it has been done to appease those who keep complaining about strict measures. The amount of selfish people who cannot bear to wait a year or so for a holiday is quite amazing.

If only it was one year! I haven't had a holiday (apart from one night at my Mum's) for two years now. This 'freedom day' means it will be 2022 before I can go away again.

What will now happen with people awaiting cancer treatment and urgent operations? Loads on Twitter of NHS staff saying they are already seeing an upsurge and cannot cope? I am actually more worried about the effects on people with life threatening illnesses that may not be COVID right now.

Do people really want a Nanny State?

NO JUST SOME FUCKING HONESTY WILL DO.

I think they actually want us to actively spread the virus now OP.

My theory is that the vaccines aren’t providing the wall of protection they’d hoped for and it’s obvious that soon they’ll be ineffective with new variants coming along. Actual immunity must offer better protection in the long run - so they want us to infect each other. Hence no masks.

Now is a good time to do that as people feel safe as they think they’re protected by the vaccines so are happy to go out and about.

Simply because the vaccinated are contracting it in their droves.

How many people makes up a drove, exactly? Most cases are still in the non- or single-vaccinated people; we can't wait under restrictions forever until someone comes up with a 100% effective vaccine.

But the fact remains that there are those for whom the vaccine is wholly ineffective and they need to be aware that 'freedom day' does in no way assure their safety

Yeah I suspect they know that.

You do realise that many parts of the world have just gone back to normal. We are not out on a limb here doing what no-one else is doing. We are also one of the most vaccinated countries in the world!

I think the 19th should be pushed back until September. The government are dealing with a public who are increasingly frustrated with restrictions but that doesn't mean what they're doing is correct. We need more vaccinations to reach herd immunity to protect the cev.

If our scientists and medical officers were solely in charge of this decision I doubt they'd choose now as the time to take the brakes off.

The clinically vulnerable for whom vaccines don’t work very well are always going to be at risk from Covid.
It’s a horrible but unfortunate fact.
I think it’s true that most children are probably going to get Covid now, yes.
But the choices are limited if we don’t want to live under perpetual lockdowns for years and years to come

• I'm going to keep getting out, life is pretty normal for us.. However older teens are Aware this virus is getting worse, be cautious, I'm trying to remain as cautious as ever when out and about... I'll also try and arrange shops around low volume times. I won't feel comfortable in shops without masks at all. I hope individual shops entourage mask wearing for thier staff if nothing else.

@GoldenOmber

I'm an HCP.

My colleagues have been double vaccinated with Pfizer since March.
Half of our staff have contracted covid within the last fortnight.

Furthermore, if some of the CEV have worked out that freedom day doesn't entail a reduction in their risk, despite being double vaxxed then it hasn't been at the behest of our government.
And if they haven't worked it out?
Well, I suppose they should pay for their ignorance, is that it?

As someone whose livelihood has been decimated by this pandemic, I've been a strong advocate of opening up and reducing restrictions as soon as possible.

Now it's actually happening though, I must admit I fear for my young DC, who have obviously not had the vaccine.

Will young children potentially be at risk as a result of this?

But I keep seeing posts like this, on MN and elsewhere, where posters urge a slower pace of unlocking, more caution, ongoing restrictions etc… but are always very coy about suggesting when it should all end

There isn’t an end though is there if we’re living with it?

For me, I’d be happy with an evidenced levelling off of infection before lifting everything bar one or two things. We have no idea what will happen at the moment because cases (and everything that goes with that) are rising. Not slowing or levelling off, rising.

A logical progression of what we’ve been doing up to now basically instead of this ‘fuck it’ point we appear to have arrived at.

@Zotter
Thank you for raising this. I have/had Long Covid since infection in March 20.
I didn't have any pre existing conditions.
Healthy early 30s.
My life was turned upside down. Bedridden for months/most of the year. Wheelchair so I could get out sometimes.
I have been very fortunate as seemingly since getting the vaccine I began to very gradually recover.
I'm left with a chronic condition (POTS) often associated with ME.
I have to be much more careful about over exertion, stress, diet, no alcohol etc.
I have a renewed appreciation of chronic illness. I dipped my toe into being part of the ME community and I find the current herd immunity strategy terrifying.
It's a Tory government . What did we expect?

I wouldn't push it to September though!.

Hallelujah I say. Let's just get on with it now.

I'm CEV, i'm done with restrictions, I want what's left of my life back and i'm done with shielding. The solitary confinement has wrecked my mental health and i'll take my chances from now on.

Confused by this thread. If you're CEV, then you can still wear a mask, social distance, stay away from crowded places. No one is forcing anyone to stop doing those things.
The rest of us, who are comfortable with it, need to get back to some semblance of normality before we all lose our businesses, jobs, homes etc.

Sorry I keep posting as thoughts pop into my head I also strongly feel that masks are so simple and offer some basic protection to those around us!

• I'm so confused that people still refer to mask wearing as a protection for the mask wearer and not those around.

We wear a mask to protect others.

And if they haven't worked it out?
Well, I suppose they should pay for their ignorance, is that it?

Ah I seeeee. So when I said to you above that yes, the government should do more to put in guidelines, legal and financial protections for CEV people - that was actually secret code for my evil desires to make the CEV 'pay for their ignorance'. Well done you!

Immunity wanes.

Are we all supposed to just keep catching every new varient!

I actually find it quite disingenuous in some cases, where the people being so stubbornly vague about timescales for their desired restrictions clearly mean they should be in place forever but just won’t admit it, as on some level they must know that this means a reduced quality of life for the entire population.

Very well observed, I totally agree.