Let's face it, they're letting it rip.

[ZednotZee]

Aren't they?

The vaccines aren't seemingly preventing transmission.

We are opening up on the 19th.

This is being done presumably as the public appetite for further lockdowns will be nil come October/November so best to get it over with now and have heard immunity come the autumn.

They won't say it but its becoming very clear that the immunocompromised need to continue to shield til the rest of us have contracted and got over the infection.

Yeah, it can go back to "normal" when a high enough % of people are vaccinated to render levels v low in the population. It isn't a stick your finger in the air and guess kind of time frame which could go on forever, we could achieve it by the end of the year if we just vaccinated everyone over the age of 12. The vaccines have been approved, other countries are doing this. This pretence that we just need to learn to live with high levels of infection because Covid isn't going away really irks me. It's an untruth because we have the vaccine, we could get levels really really low, that's what vaccines do. If only we would just wait and get everyone vaccinated.

They won't say it but its becoming very clear that the immunocompromised need to continue to shield

It's hugely disablist (and ageist) this policy. Condemning the immunocompromised & the elderly to retreat from society. I have a friend with a terminal illness, who is looking at shielding for the rest of his (shortened) live. He's not particularly frail, and could work, but was advised to take early medical retirement because the risk was too great. He's active and currently well but now housebound because of this government's attitude.

Let the bodies pile up, indeed.

Vaccinate over 12s? No, my children won't be getting vaccinated thanks.

The more it spreads the more it mutates. Many double vaccinated are catching it, it’s already mutating around the vaccine.

I do think it’s here forever, I also think we have to live with it. But. It’s more of a sense of resignation. I honestly don’t think it has shown anything but its ability to survive, mutate and evade. Covid is going nowhere, and the irony of this complete opening of the gates will take us back down the road of full lockdown. Again. And Boris and his gang will not acknowledge it was their decision.

Admitting anyone needed to shield would be admitting that noone can reliably risk assess their individual situation.

And yet, admit it they must because opinions such as ours will stand for posterity.
And with the benefit of hindsight increasing numbers of people will be able to see through their bullshit.

How many lives are really worth the preservation of their self image?

Yeah I don't think vaccinating, what, 33 million people now? with highly effective vaccines really counts as 'letting it rip'.

I don't know if lifting so much on 19 July is the right decision or not, but I can see the logic in saying that there's always going to be some form of exit wave so better to have that over summer, plus of course we can't keep restrictions in place indefinitely when they have such harmful effects of their own.

@sashagabadon

We do need herd immunity though. We need enough people immune to stop the virus circulating and it’s better now in the summer than in the winter when we’ll have flu to contend with too.

This isn less likely to create herd immunity and more likely to breed another strain. The double vaxxed are getting it in their droves.

Utterly ground down. I can't say I'm sorry at this news. We cannot lock down forever.

I think it has been done to appease those who keep complaining about strict measures. The amount of selfish people who cannot bear to wait a year or so for a holiday is quite amazing.

What is it that people "want to get on with" exactly?

We can already see family, see friends, travel within the uk and a few other countries. We can go to bars/cafes/cinemas/religious ceremonies etc and the list goes on.

Why would a bit of social distancing and wearing masks for a bit longer be such a problem for people?

I am pleased thought that they're doing away with bubbles, although again, they seem to have gone from one extreme to the other - ten days isolating to zero when they could have had 3, for example, and had kids testing daily within that timeframe.

Those who want SD and masks to remain and to continue to limit indoor mixing, is there a point at which you would support the removal of those restrictions (other than the total eradication of covid which is not achievable?)

I want these things to be removed definitely but not when the cases are going up so fast. I’m in Cornwall and we’ve never had so many cases and they’re still increasing.
I would rather have masks and social distancing for a few more months then go in lockdown again which is bound to happen if cases keep getting higher.

@GoldenOmber

The vaccine is only highly effective on an individual level.

It doesn't prevent transmission to any significant degree.
And to the immunocompromised it may as well have been a saline injection in a majority of cases.

He should reinstate shielding recommendations as an adjunct to the end of lock down.

But that would take balls, wouldn't it?

So I'm not holding my breath. I'm simply sharing my concerns with others and hoping that the CEV get the message from other sources than their government.

What an utter shit show eh?

You are so right Op. I can't see how keeping facemasks or continuing to wash your hands properly would prevent economic recovery. It wouldn't be a lot, but a whole lot better than just letting it rip. But as others have said, they (and many of you) don't give a shit for the elderly or the vulnerable. As someone in this group, I expect to be shielding yet again, as I can no longer rely on anyone distancing, washing hands or not coughing over me. Thanks.

@ShortBacknSides

They won't say it but its becoming very clear that the immunocompromised need to continue to shield

It's hugely disablist (and ageist) this policy. Condemning the immunocompromised & the elderly to retreat from society. I have a friend with a terminal illness, who is looking at shielding for the rest of his (shortened) live. He's not particularly frail, and could work, but was advised to take early medical retirement because the risk was too great. He's active and currently well but now housebound because of this government's attitude.

Let the bodies pile up, indeed.

It’s not ageist or disablist though is it?!

Not having ramps to allow wheelchair access to a club is disablist as why should they not enjoy the club the same as an able bodied person? There would be no reason not to make access easier.

Covid restrictions are having significant negative implications on the majority of people, children included. (I’d actually say the young have been thrown under the bus!)

Do you only care about the physical negative affects of covid? Doug you care about the Mental health implications? Why is the mental health impact not important?

The concept of 'letting it rip' in the context of the following, is rather removed from the concept of 'letting it rip' back in March 2020...

In England, it is estimated that over 8 in 10 adults, or 86.6% of the adult population (95% credible interval: 84.6% to 88.5%) would have tested positive for antibodies against coronavirus – SARS-CoV-2 – on a blood test in the week beginning 7 June 2021, suggesting they had the infection in the past or have been vaccinated.

In Wales, it is estimated that over 8 in 10 adults, or 88.7% of the adult population (95% credible interval: 86.6% to 90.9%) would have tested positive for antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 on a blood test in the week beginning 7 June 2021, suggesting they had the infection in the past or have been vaccinated.

In Northern Ireland, it is estimated that over 8 in 10 adults, or 85.4% of the adult population (95% credible interval: 82.0% to 88.5%) would have tested positive for antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 on a blood test in the week beginning 7 June 2021, suggesting they had the infection in the past or have been vaccinated.

In Scotland, an estimated 8 in 10 adults, or 79.1% of the adult population (95% credible interval: 76.3% to 81.8%) would have tested positive for antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 on a blood test in the week beginning 7 June 2021, suggesting they had the infection in the past or have been vaccinated.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveyantibodyandvaccinationdatafortheuk/latest

The next ONS data release on this is tomorrow.

If that percentage have antibodies when we plan to reopen is that a) letting it rip b) the sign of a successful vaccine programme which is now nearing completion so we can now reopen things because 'letting it rip' no longer poses the threat it did previously?

Or is it just easier to use emotive meaning shite phrases like 'letting it rip' to scare the shit out of people rather than actually trying to understand the point of the vaccine programme and why we are talking about how we are now able to reopen?

I think theres a few people who might have entirely missed the point.

They are. Disbelief doesn't cover it.

@ZednotZee

Admitting anyone needed to shield would be admitting that noone can reliably risk assess their individual situation.

And yet, admit it they must because opinions such as ours will stand for posterity.
And with the benefit of hindsight increasing numbers of people will be able to see through their bullshit.

How many lives are really worth the preservation of their self image?

You’ve more faith in society than I have I’m afraid. The current cabinet (and in truth previous ones for getting on for a decade but this lot are blatant) think we’re contemptuous morons.

Remember the outrage when Jacob Rees-Mogs stood up in parliament and told us to stop whining (barely paraphrased) when there weren’t enough tests to meet demand last autumn? No? Neither to I because there was barely a murmur and instead people started berating each other for ‘wasting’ tests.

Have a listen to last weeks PM questions and the exchange between Kier and BJ over Hancock’s departure. They’re not even bothering to hide their contempt for us, there’s no way treating the general public with a shred of respect is even a fleck of dust on their radar. They’ll keep playing their PR games and we’ll keep voting them in.

(To be clear I say ‘we’ in the context of the electorate. I haven’t cast a vote for this lot)

We’re going to be very cautious indeed for the next few months, CEV husband and one of our children CV.

The upside though, I think, is that come school/college/university return in September/October, the vast majority of non CV/CEV youngsters will have had Covid, recovered and have antibodies. Second infections are possible but still pretty rare.

At some point, personal responsibility will have to take over. Modern society has “learned to live” (god-awful phrase) with influenza which, 100 years ago, was every bit as terrifying as Covid (more so in fact, without the benefit of vaccines, medics fought it with morphine and bovril).

There have always been/will always be vulnerable people but society as a whole hasn’t been expected to protect them to this degree because it’s just not sustainable. (Exception being masks: easy thing to do for the healthy majority to do: why wouldn’t you?)

It doesn't prevent transmission to any significant degree.

Yes it does. And those that it gets transmitted to are much, much less likely to end up hospitalised or dead. Vaccines are it, they're what we've got, they're as good as it gets, and I'm not sure going all 'ahhhh but vaccines aren't THAT good you know!' antivax to show up the Tories is a great move here.

Yes I agree the government should bring in something akin to shielding for the still-vulnerable, at least some better guidance and legal and financial protection until cases start going down again.

Still don't agree that vaccinating thirty-three million people and offering every adult in the country a vaccine free and easy to get counts as 'letting it rip', and genuinely not sure how anyone can.

@RedToothBrush

On the contrary, I agree with the policy.

I'm not spreading fear. As you quite rightly state, 86% of us will be ok. I'm not scared at all, for myself or most of my contemporaries.
But we are not the be all and end all here.

I'm also appealing to the other 14% to proceed with extreme caution.

Because our government won't.

@MumToBe1980

My concern is the sheer number of variants we are already seeing. So far our vaccines have been affectivr however I'm concerned that it is only a matter of time until a vaccine resistant mutation emerges then we are truly back to square one. The more cases we see the more chance of mutation. Personally I was happy to live with restrictions so that everybody including the clinically vulnerable could enjoy these freedoms too, however i do have friends and family who find it incredibly frustrating.

It's the variants I worry about too, and the possibility our current vaccine won't be effective.

As someone in this group, I expect to be shielding yet again, as I can no longer rely on anyone distancing, washing hands or not coughing over me. Thanks.

Commiserations @Jaxhog I know several people in your sitation. It's shit. THey're being told "Oh you can assess your risk" - but it's not the risks they take, it's the risks others (who may be careless, may be unvaccinated, maybe think COVID is nothing) pose to them that is what they need to be careful of.

They are condemned to becoming pretty much housebound, but nobody cares.

The government are allowing the virus to go through a semi-vaccinated population which creates the ideal conditions for an even more dangerous variant. They are also completely ignoring long CoVid. Over the next few months, many more people will likely be infected. Most will be fine. But some will develop long covid, a now well documented phenomenon which destroys the quality of life of some of the people it affects.

I have had ME for 23 years since age 27, bedridden last ten years. Fatigue is listed as a common symptom for long CoVid but reading the experience of some with LC - which seems to be an umbrella term for various sub groups - they are describing the fatigue as people with ME experience: intolerance to trivial amounts of activity with an increase in the baseline pain, cognitive, neurological and flu like symptoms post minor exertion. For those severely effected with ME the activity can be as minor as brushing one’s hair.

It is not known yet whether this sub group of LC and ME are the same at the molecular/biochemical level. There are differences in some symptoms too. Also some individuals who developed long CoVid and have still not recovered completely have been ill no more than 16 months, so still the possibility this type of LC may be ultimately self limiting even if recovery is v protracted for some. However, should the condition in some in this sub group of LC turn out to become chronic as it is for majority of people with ME lifelong disability may ensue. Then there is the long CoVid group with organ damage, some may have both types involved. We just don’t know yet. This risk to our population especially young people - LC affects all ages including children- who are not double vaccinated or at all yet concerns me a lot. ME has been minimised and ignored for decades. I don’t want this to happen to people with LC as well.

No win situation 🙄

We will have to learn to live with CV19 like we do at present with the Winter flu and that causes people to die as well

If people want to keep themselves safe by wearing masks, avoiding crowded places etc, then the Government has not said do not do it.

What they have said is act responsibly and act accordingly

Do people really want a Nanny State?

If the economy is not opened soon, the problems of the past 18 months will pale into insignificance

@GoldenOmber

Simply because the vaccinated are contracting it in their droves.
It isn't anti vax to state this. Unless fact is now anti vaxx rhetoric.
Its also being thankfully very effective in preventing them from poorer outcomes/long covid and death.

But the fact remains that there are those for whom the vaccine is wholly ineffective and they need to be aware that 'freedom day' does in no way assure their safety l. And certainly no more in July 2021 than it would have at the same point last year.