Let's face it, they're letting it rip.

[ZednotZee]

Aren't they?

The vaccines aren't seemingly preventing transmission.

We are opening up on the 19th.

This is being done presumably as the public appetite for further lockdowns will be nil come October/November so best to get it over with now and have heard immunity come the autumn.

They won't say it but its becoming very clear that the immunocompromised need to continue to shield til the rest of us have contracted and got over the infection.

it is not the top cause of death now

@ZednotZee

ZednotZeethe government can’t lift every restriction and precaution and simultaneously endorse the CEV/CV shielding because it’s admitting to everyone that they’re knowingly putting us all in a precarious position. It’s a gamble and they know it.

They are gambling with the lives of the CEV.

If that sits well with you crack on. Personally I would appreciate a touch more honesty.
I believe most of us can handle the truth, don't you?

Out of anything I’ve posted what on earth makes you think that’s my position?

As someone who is CEV, a single parent of three, and carer for my elderly mum I am not wanting to shield again. It was bloody hard going and I had to give up my training due to it. I'm due to restart in September but it's not looking likely. I'm not sure herd immunity is possible with something that mutates regularly. It's simply not the same as chicken pox, measles, rubella etc. You can't compare. I think it's going to be another difficult autumn, winter and possibly spring. I'll do what I need to do to keep us all safe, including shielding if required, but I really don't want to go through that again. I really hope the boosters are ready as early as possible.

I don't think there is a "right" answer, there are pros and cons whatever approach is taken.

well they could start by being transparent in their intentions.

That, to me at least is the 'right thing to do.'

OK...I'm in the US and NOT the UK, and the most recent numbers I have are for May, which is not too far back. Of those hospitalized with COVID in the US for the month of May, 96.(?)% were totally unvaccinated. Of deaths from COVID in the US for the month of May, 98.(?)% were unvaccinated. I'm sorry I don't recall the numbers after the decimal point. However, these numbers, given our population, seem to say that the vaccines are, in fact, doing something. What concerns me, here, is the number of states where vaccinated people is below 50%, and this is by choice. The vaccines are there, the people just do not want them.

@Sunshinegirl82

Those who want SD and masks to remain and to continue to limit indoor mixing, is there a point at which you would support the removal of those restrictions (other than the total eradication of covid which is not achievable?)

This is a really good point. Some people genuinely seem to think the restrictions should last forever, and it’s frightening. I have a couple of these types on Facebook and it’s very hard to keep quiet.

Totally agree with cantkeepawayforever. We are almost there with vaccinating all adults. We could vaccinate children 12+ before return to school in Sept. It all makes sense to minimise the damage then move on to next step, but no. Just let it rip. Depressing, especially as a mother of cv child.

Well my 43 year old friend has it right now. Still working from home and caring for children alone.

Only had once vaccine and she said the flu was far worse.

Guess what…. This is the reality for most people who get it. Can’t keep healthy properly licked away indefinitely for something that hardly affects them. End of.

Nothing more can be done. People will have to mane judgement calls to protect people that are vulnerable.

What I will say I’d that CEV children should surely be offered the vaccine. I hope this comes to fruition

@ZednotZee

Agree. The worst aspect of the government response the past 12 months has been the lack of candour and honesty. That's led to people getting mixed messaging, frustration, not following advice, ignoring everything etc. Unfortunately with this government their first instinct is to lie, even when telling the truth would be easier.

People have been managing their own risk factors for a while now, at least in our village they have.
Just last week, there was a village-wide supper club that went ahead despite being over the limit on indoor mixing, and only two of the usual attendees declined on the basis of Covid and the fact the numbers are going up.

Eldest DS is a doctor and he's far more concerned with flu and other respiratory viruses coming back with a vengeance this winter, due to us all being hunkered down with no socialisation for so long. Especially on very young children and babies, paediatric wards are expecting a big increase in admittance over the colder months due to lack of resistance.

@Sunshinegirl82

So we would potentially release restrictions at the end of September(ish?)

I think the issue with that is we would be heading into winter with all the schools back. As children are so unlikely to suffer serious side effects from covid the risk benefit analysis of vaccination for children is more evenly balanced than it is for adults.

I don't think there is a "right" answer, there are pros and cons whatever approach is taken.

But we wouldn't have had a summer wave of hospitalisations and the hospitals would have caught up a bit.

Having a wave now keeps people on the waiting lists until potentially next summer.

And does nothing to address the ticking time bomb of things that people have been putting off going to the doctor about fit a year.

And all the stuff that's being missed because people aren't having their regular out-patient appointments.

I've honestly not seen any reason why having a wave now would reduces the size of the autumn winter wave except that by killing people off now you reduce the size of the vulnerable pool later.

@Cornettoninja

Because you're saying that the can't.

They can. It would be very easy to do.
But it would cause consternation and probably lose them the next election.

Power is more important to them than preserving lives.
They can literally have their cake and eat it.
It just takes a modicum of bravery yeah right and honesty from tories

@ZednotZee

I don't think there is a "right" answer, there are pros and cons whatever approach is taken.

well they could start by being transparent in their intentions.

That, to me at least is the 'right thing to do.'

I don't necessarily disagree but I wasn't commenting on their approach to communication, I was commenting on the general approach to restrictions.

Masks and SD in place

No indoor mixing.

No holidays

So what's stopping you doing all that? Crack on.

I don’t understand the messaging at all? The 21 June date was pushed back due to Delta, now just no mention of it at all and we’re doing away with all restrictions?!

If you want to stay at home then do so but don't expect me to be locked up in limbo forever. My money is running out, some of us didn't qualify for furlough. Time to manage our own risk factors.

@cantkeepawayforever

The Government is giving the public bread and circuses - and false promises - for a few weeks because they feel they have to, and they know restrictions will have to come back in the Autumn.

So they have to let things go so badly wrong that people will accept those restrictions - both because they will have had their few weeks of fun, and because the stats will be SO scary that people will agree to some restrictions again. Poorly CEV children will be very useful poster fodder for this - they will be the sad faces in October or so, explaining why we need to accept restrictions again.

It really is 'now or never' - the Government knows that easing is only temporary, and they have decided that the cost of this particular gamble at this particular time is acceptable.

Totally agree

@PrincessNutNuts

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/05/chris-whitty-keeping-covid-restrictions-will-only-delay-wave

There seems to be a mix of opinions and an acknowledgment that there is uncertainty surrounding the decision making which seems fair enough in the circumstances.

An alternative course of action would be to abandon all restrictions only when we have achieved herd Immunity via vaccination. At least I thought that's what Chris Whitty was proposing when we first started rolling out the vaccines. At least then CEV people would be protected as virus levels would be v low in the population. We'll get there when about 80% of the population is vaccinated, and considering the progress we've made, we wouldn't need to wait too long for that. But to drop all restrictions now, when infections are increasing as a large % aren't yet fully vaccinated, seem madness. Why scrap masks, when wearing them causes zero harm to both health and the economy? Unless the goal is herd Immunity via infection, in which case it makes total sense. CEV's aren't protected though so it seems a particularly callous course of action for the sake of waiting a short while longer.

[quote MercyBooth]@DontDoThatGeorge A supermarket worker didnt choose to work in the NHS so didnt choose a career where mask wearing was likely. And its supermarket workers who have made sure shelves are filled so everyone can buy food including NHS workers. In fact they were prioritized by the supermarket workers you look down on.[/quote]
I don't look down on anyone.

Most NHS staff absolutely didn't expect to be wearing full PPE all the damn time, or seeing the level of death and trauma they have over the last year. We're all bloody scarred. Most of us have PTSD and nightmares about what we've seen and dealt with.

"I don't want to" wear a mask is fucking pathetic.

They’re hoping herd immunity will kick in. Thing is there will be a lot of casualties to this approach like long Covid. Better to wait until more of the population are vaccinated, surely? I really worry for the unvaccinated young people who are going to be left with serious dilemmas thanks to this.

[quote ZednotZee]@Cornettoninja

Because you're saying that the can't.

They can. It would be very easy to do.
But it would cause consternation and probably lose them the next election.

Power is more important to them than preserving lives.
They can literally have their cake and eat it.
It just takes a modicum of bravery yeah right and honesty from tories[/quote]
And you’ve just explained (from their perspective, not mine) why they can’t. They know that to do so would reveal the absolute depth their bollocks and bullshit sinks to. I was commenting on their methods not condoning them.

I don’t agree with a ‘let it rip’ policy but I would accept a managed spread which would still require some precautions to stay in place until the rise in current cases levels off and we have an idea of what is likely to be the number of cases we’re expected to live alongside is. At the moment there is nothing to go on, we could be living alongside 30k cases a day or 150k cases a day. Admitting anyone needed to shield would be admitting that noone can reliably risk assess their individual situation.

Life really does have to go on now. People need to evaluate their risk and add accordingly. Like all other risks in life.

@Randominternetbitch

Yawn. We are incredibly lucky to have vaccines that offer excellent protection for the majority of people available to us free of charge. Take up rates are also thankfully very high. Thats not what I’d call letting it rip.

Covid is not the only threat we have to face and balance as a society.

this , i wonder just how long people would have restrictions drag on for , the next 2 or 3 years , at some point it surely has to get back to normal

@loulouljh

Life really does have to go on now. People need to evaluate their risk and add accordingly. Like all other risks in life.

Life's not going to go on for us all though is it?

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachmentdata/file/993358/s12888WarwickRoadMappStep_4.pdf