Did it seem a bit odd that the tone of today's announcement was so sombre?

[secretintrovert]

Bojo should have been doing his victory dance for freedom day! Instead the three of them looked as miserable as sin. There's trouble afoot methinks. This will be very very temporary

@RafaIsTheKingOfClay

I had really thought that this pandemic would result in much more mask acceptance in Britain

Never underestimate the stupidity and sense of exceptionalism of the British public.

This! People forever joining the problem Covidiots crowd not solution Covid smart mutually respectful camp! More ventilators and masks may be required as well as vaccinations for younger children?

Yes, as a general rule assume anyone invoking WW2 in relation to covid is full of shit.

Boris is presenting a false set of options.

"If not now then when" already carries the idea that this step if the only possible course of action, and that the only alternative is no action.

This is not the case.

There are different courses of action, and I think what Keit starner said yesterday (about masks and public transport) makes sense.

Also, with cases rocketing, abandoning indoors mask wearing and having unlimited numbers as close as you like is reckless.

We could do some of it now, and the rest when the data supports it (ie this wave has peaked and numbers are shoowing a sustained fall) not because the date is the start of the summer hols.

I did notice that there was no mention ant more of any of this being irreversible.

Those who are healthy get a good summer, which recharges them for the possible slog of another bad winter.

Those who are more vulnerable don't really get anything, apart from the ending of safer indoors spaces leaving fewer options, even for essential food shopping.

Agree with you @nether

People are accusing others of being cavalier about the deaths of strangers - but poverty and economic problems kill as well. It might not be immediate but it kills by degrees and inches. People can’t take the time off insecure gig jobs to see a doctor about that lump, or that ache. (Remember that poor delivery driver who died a couple of years ago because his firm - DPD I think - wouldn’t let him have time off for his diabetes review?). You can’t afford to see a dentist, so that oral cancer goes unseen. You can’t afford a healthy diet, or a gym membership, or trainers for a run, or even if you could you’ve worked your backside off all day and you’re just too knackered to contemplate it. You live with the constant stress of an insecure income. You can’t heat the house properly in the winter, or deal with the damp, and you probably don’t have many options if you’re renting, so you can’t get the landlord to deal with it either.

I don’t know if this plan is the best plan, but I do know it’s not as simple as everyone living long lives if we just stay as we are. This situation is hurting people, it’s just a quiet, long term hurt. We might not see the consequences for a long time, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t there and real.

@nether

The CEV (that's 2.5 million people) have been left high and dry.

Agree with what Keir Starmer and the unions are saying

The Unions and opposition will ALWAYS disagree. If Boris had kept SD and masks they would have disagreed. fucking politics

@Spudlet

People are accusing others of being cavalier about the deaths of strangers - but poverty and economic problems kill as well. It might not be immediate but it kills by degrees and inches. People can’t take the time off insecure gig jobs to see a doctor about that lump, or that ache. (Remember that poor delivery driver who died a couple of years ago because his firm - DPD I think - wouldn’t let him have time off for his diabetes review?). You can’t afford to see a dentist, so that oral cancer goes unseen. You can’t afford a healthy diet, or a gym membership, or trainers for a run, or even if you could you’ve worked your backside off all day and you’re just too knackered to contemplate it. You live with the constant stress of an insecure income. You can’t heat the house properly in the winter, or deal with the damp, and you probably don’t have many options if you’re renting, so you can’t get the landlord to deal with it either.

I don’t know if this plan is the best plan, but I do know it’s not as simple as everyone living long lives if we just stay as we are. This situation is hurting people, it’s just a quiet, long term hurt. We might not see the consequences for a long time, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t there and real.

Exactly.

The big problem is, we have a lot of vulnerable people in our society, of which CEV are only one cohort, and sometimes they have competing needs. We entered this pandemic particularly badly prepared because of a decade of austerity, and honestly I think even if the UK response to it hadn't been blundered from the start, problems of balancing diverging interests of different vulnerable groups was going to bite us at some point.

My kid hasn't had a dental checkup in two years. Preventative health, so carefully built up since the birth of the NHS, is now close to non existent.

Every packet of OTC medicines states 'if symptoms persist see a doctor'. Good luck with that.

@RafaIsTheKingOfClay

I had really thought that this pandemic would result in much more mask acceptance in Britain

Never underestimate the stupidity and sense of exceptionalism of the British public.

That is so patronising. No sane person enjoys wearing a mask.

@RedToothBrush

**And the alternative is?

At the point that we've done vaccines there is an issue.

The clinically vulnerable are going to have to step out the door at some point. They can't go back to a pre-covid era and they can't be protected indefinitely from Delta or its subsequent variants.

That leaves an issue we have to face up to as brutal as it is - there is only so much we can protect some of the clinical vulnerable going forward.

For some the vaccine will work. Great. Fantastic. Amazing. This is a victory. For others, treating covid with the knowledge we now have will work. Again brilliant. This is progress from 18 months ago. For others there isn't a solution and to be blunt, it could just be a matter of time as covid is a permanent feature of life now.

Your political alignments and leanings won't change this.

We could continue shutting down indefinitely but that has other health consequences - often shouldered by the most clinically vulnerable anyway.

I wish there was a magic wand that made this not true. But I genuinely dont think there is one beyond wishful thinking and the scientists know this.

Speaking honestly and openly about this is gut wrenchingly awful. You aren't going to get many doing it. Instead its euphemisms like 'learning to live with covid'. But ultimately its about how covid has an impact on life expectancy in a negative way and humans are relatively powerless to minimise this, even in developed countries with the medical knowledge we have.

I don't know there is a way to sugar coat this.

I don't think this is 'throwing people under the bus'. It a reflection of how the world is different.

There is no magic solution to time warp or erase covid instantly**

Absolutely nailed it!! 👍

@Spudlet your so right. Covid isn't the only thing out there.
So many other illnesses have been missed because of covid.

MH has an affect on physical health too, people start abusing substances (comfort eating, cigarettes, alcohol, drugs) or take the road out when MH takes too much of a bashing. That's all being forgotten about.

I am just going to continue with masks and social distancing and if I socialise keep it to an absolute minimum.

Does Legoland ask you to wear masks at all times? Just inside? Did people wear them inside?

I don't tend to wear them outside and I don't think people NOT wearing them outside is an indicator of anything really.

We live in Somerset, went away for a few days to Dorset and visited the Clarks outlet a few days ago. Wherever we went the vast majority of people (99.99%) were wearing masks indoors and sometimes outdoors when approaching staff members or just wandering around. In the whole of the outlet village only one older couple came out of a shop without a mask on and it was busy everywhere.

I read others on here saying that people have given up on masks and social distancing, but that's not what I'm seeing with my own eyes. Compliance seems very high.

@Passthesauce

Am not entirely sure they have much choice, TBH. I was at LEGOLAND today - no one was mask wearing/ social distancing and I had the distinct impression everyone had given up.

In fairness, I have never been convinced by the necessity of masks outdoors, so had every sympathy. I wore mine as I'm an obedient type but wasn't too worried about others not doing so.

Very pleased the whole bubble thing seems to be going in schools, though - I remain somewhat aggrieved that I can't go to sports day yet the tube will be clogged up with people going to Wembley on Weds.

Sorry, my previous post was in reply to this one.

This shitshow of a government will end up with egg on their face because I, and many others who are uncomfortable with letting it rip, will not be visiting restaurants, visitor attractions, or non-essential shops after the 19th.

We're going round in fucking circles and are back to square one.

@GreenWillow

Another one here totally in agreement with your post.
Of course more will die, just as people die from ‘flu and pneumonia over the winter, but we all just accept it because it’s been around all our lives. I doubt many people even think about those numbers, unless directly affected. However, I do remember some hospitals having portakabins in their car parks to cope with the number of patients in bad ‘flu years.

It’s unrealistic to expect any government to make the perfect judgement calls in a pandemic of a new virus, but my goodness - surely no-one can deny that our vaccine development and roll out has been nothing short of amazing.

It’s time now for acceptance that this will be with us for the foreseeable, and get back to living. Get back to investigating and treating people for everything that’s been ‘on the back burner’ for the last 18 months.

Potentially forever if they develop disabling Long Covid.

Btw your post implies that you think 30 year olds are more important than 60 year olds? Which is rather strange seeing as the 60 year old will have contributed more tax to the economy

@Tealightsandd

And your post suggests the amount of money someone has paid in tax makes their life more valuable!…….

Thankfully it’s never been an issue in deciding who gets life support care over another person. It’s been available to anyone that needs it. It’s highly unlikely to ever be a problem moving forward.

There’s no doubt demand and supply of services will increase even if a few on here will stay home.

That’s the general point.

I’m glad we are being unhooked from each other’s actions and risk profiles.

It’s a big step which feels freeing and also I get why the tone. There will be rises, within capacity most likely.

@MouldyPotato

It felt like they were saying that's it, there's nothing else we can do. Off you go. Last one out turn the light off.

This is precisely what it is. Because that's the reality of it. We have vaccines, they're offered to everyone, we've had restrictions in place to allow the vaccines to be rolled out. Not everyone will accept them, not all vaccines will work, not all deaths will be prevented - but this really is the end of the line.

Short of not allowing social contact forever, this is the most they can do, and where it must end.

@secretintrovert

Bojo should have been doing his victory dance for freedom day! Instead the three of them looked as miserable as sin. There's trouble afoot methinks. This will be very very temporary

Because he knows he's yet again in the wrong, and when his temporary popularity because of vaccine rollout wears off, the accounting is gonna come. He and his have killed more people than in some wars. They are criminals.

I suspect by September or October we will see some of the restrictions make a come back. Probably why Whitty and Vallance agreed to lend their credibility to the announcement. Johnson had to go through with "freedom day", I think they all know it won't stay like that for long but it will give most people maybe 2 months of vacation from the pandemic. So if they had to do it, it's best they do it now before autumn.

@NannyAndJohn

This shitshow of a government will end up with egg on their face because I, and many others who are uncomfortable with letting it rip, will not be visiting restaurants, visitor attractions, or non-essential shops after the 19th.

We're going round in fucking circles and are back to square one.

This! But what do you expect when even those supposedly in charge have been gaslighting the British (English) public with token scientists at the podium nodding in agreement against their better pure scientific medical health and safety judgement.

I suspect this is likely the “better” of very bad worst options. In other words let the next pandemic Indian Delta or Delta Plus and new variants of possible vaccines escape such as Peru Lambda continue to rip through England maybe UK if hone nations allow mixing - and see if the vaccination can reduce the stress on the NHS with some currently closed off business sectors the option to reopen a bit. This will hopefully mean the next wave is pushed forward as to lessen the impact during Autumn and Winter. Normally winter is influenza season but the masking has helped reduced this impact as well as Covid. The best model to follow is possibly Israel as they have mass vaccination (rare anti vaxxers) and have now gone back to masking after lifting Covid risk mitigation measures previously.

I wonder why the deaths of strangers has never mattered to people who suddenly it matters to now. I wonder if this is because suddenly it is they who might be affected?

What option is there? Lockdowns have failed - the collateral damage is too great. If masks worked noticeably then we would not have had the increases in infections we had last autumn.

I'm not a habitual Telegraph reader but there's an interesting article in it today about choices and freedoms. Remove people's capacity to choose for long enough and they then become terrified of it changing.

It doesn't seem as though the British people at large are bounding towards July 19th roaring "Freedom!" Which is how the government wants it. Perhaps your terrors are unfounded.

And I'm aware of contradictions in my post before anyone leaps on it.

I’m glad we are being unhooked from each other’s actions and risk profiles

I wish I could feel this way, I really do. But now we are all required to rely on each other's "common sense", I feel more dependent on others, not less.

@CryingAtTheDiscotheque

I’m glad we are being unhooked from each other’s actions and risk profiles

I wish I could feel this way, I really do. But now we are all required to rely on each other's "common sense", I feel more dependent on others, not less.

However the alternative to that is a government which credits people with zero common sense and gets to decide literally everything for us. Is that what you actually want?