Should we be worried about our children?

[Moonme]

I know several families that are having to isolate due to children being in contact with cases at school. It seems like the Government is going for a herd immunity strategy amongst the young. Should we be concerned about this? I know the risk of dying is super low but I’ve seen a few doctors on Twitter (respected UK Drs) saying we shouldn’t be playing fast and loose with a novel virus as we don’t know the long term impacts.
What are your thoughts?

Here not disagreeing

So the discussion becomes more focussed on 12 plus

People feel very strongly on either side on here. I’m out of the age group waiting to hear but I understand why people are worried either way.

Having read the whole thread I think the problem is that we all agree that this is awful for children, their mental health is struggling and that they should be protected as much as they can from the effects of the pandemic and COVID.

But there is not as far as I can see a way that can be done - what are the solutions here because you have a whole lot of competing issues

(1) COVID itself - the risks in getting it seriously and after effects there of

(2) the risks of vaccinations (which cannot be ignored) and the fact that it hasnt yet been cleared for the under 12s

(3) that lockdowns and self isolations are causing incredible amount of anxiety and mental health issues and are damaging in the long term

So I think everyone would do anything to protect not only their own children but all children. But the 3 issues above are in competition with each other and carry risks so what do we do?

To be fair Hornbill I dont think he did compare it to flu - he said we have to learn to live with it like flu. There is I think a difference - a semantic difference yes but one nonetheless.

And can we stop with the fact that this is somehow just a UK based issue, that we are the only ones whose children are living like this - one way or another all children are (yes some countries have different mitigations, some have schools shut, some have masks all day) but one way or another children are suffering everywhere. Also the Delta variant is pretty much everywhere as well we are just ahead of the curve.

Perhaps it would be possible to keep numbers very low though with fairly limited restrictions? Keeping r below 1 might not require that many restrictions now that so many are vaccinated. Each restriction that is put in place reduces r by a set amount. I wonder if government have looked at which restrictions could remain to keep r below 1 but we still get our education of our children

@Quartz2208

Having read the whole thread I think the problem is that we all agree that this is awful for children, their mental health is struggling and that they should be protected as much as they can from the effects of the pandemic and COVID.

But there is not as far as I can see a way that can be done - what are the solutions here because you have a whole lot of competing issues

(1) COVID itself - the risks in getting it seriously and after effects there of

(2) the risks of vaccinations (which cannot be ignored) and the fact that it hasnt yet been cleared for the under 12s

(3) that lockdowns and self isolations are causing incredible amount of anxiety and mental health issues and are damaging in the long term

So I think everyone would do anything to protect not only their own children but all children. But the 3 issues above are in competition with each other and carry risks so what do we do?

To be fair Hornbill I dont think he did compare it to flu - he said we have to learn to live with it like flu. There is I think a difference - a semantic difference yes but one nonetheless.

And can we stop with the fact that this is somehow just a UK based issue, that we are the only ones whose children are living like this - one way or another all children are (yes some countries have different mitigations, some have schools shut, some have masks all day) but one way or another children are suffering everywhere. Also the Delta variant is pretty much everywhere as well we are just ahead of the curve.

Control the virus.

Thanks @bumbleymummy
Perspective is always important I know kids can have a horrible time with any number of viruses and I don’t want to downplay that. There are things out there worse than covid! I just live in hope that those of us who have been through the tough end of covid would also be believed, and not instantly dismissed (not by you, but a fair bunch on here!) as a scaremongering lockdown fanatic. I can’t think of any other illness that would get that response and it’s pretty hard to deal with sometimes.

@Quartz2208
Sort of. Learn to live with it as we do flu.

And then this response : It is frightening to have a 'Health' Secretary who still thinks Covid is flu, who is unconcerned at levels of infection, who doesn't realise that those who do best for health also do best for the economy, who wants to ditch all protections while only half of us are vaccinated.

"Above all, it is frightening to have a 'Health' Secretary who wants to make all protections a matter of personal choice when the key message of the pandemic is "this isn't an 'I' thing, it's a 'we' thing. Your behaviour affects my health. Get your head around the 'we' concept".

I’m trying to weigh it up. The government needs to get the economy back on track.

The scientists are concerned about health over economy.

My priority is my family and their health -so I’m veering towards what the scientists say. And I’ll look at news sources worldwide to see how things develop for children.

Hopefully the summer holidays will act as a bit of a circuit breaker for the delta variant in schools. And that gives a bit more time to see how things develop with vaccines, any lag effect concerns from cases now.

I'm not surprised but i am sick to my stomach at the disregard for children by this government. At the least they should be ensuring vaccinations for children are an option to those who choose.

I work in sen school where all are classed as vulnerable and probably 70% CEV. How confused and worried these families must feel at the prospect of us all just getting on with it now. Unless their children can be vaccinated very soon they will be at more risk than they have been during this whole pandemic. Do they shield? Do they take their other children out of school? I wish the government would address these issues.

No country will be able to control the virus in under 12s once they let it in, if unvaccinated. So we can pretty much accept it will spread in that age range. There’s no point in harming young children to delay it.

So that leaves 12 plus. Isolation is causing harm so whichever way we go, address that first.

As cases rise unvaccinated groups will be more susceptible so there is time pressure. Although assisting data obviously can’t be rushed.

@PrincessNutNuts ok so how would you do that whilst minimising the huge impact that lockdown and self isolation is having on children. What controls do you want to have in place that protects them as much as possible from the mental health aspects and ensures their education.

Because control the virus doesnt actually mean anything. Life for everyone would be much easier if the Delta variant hadnt occurred but it is naive to think that we could have kept it at bay. It would have always arrived. Just like it has in 50% of the world countries and we were never going to manage to be one of those it didnt

I do kind of agree with him @Hornbill123456789 in terms of the

"Above all, it is frightening to have a 'Health' Secretary who wants to make all protections a matter of personal choice when the key message of the pandemic is "this isn't an 'I' thing, it's a 'we' thing. Your behaviour affects my health. Get your head around the 'we' concept".

But the bit where he tries to make out that he still thinks it is flu loses me because that isnt the same as learning to live with it like flu.

But the problem has always been there is no THE science there are no THE scientists. Data is interpreted differently depending on pre-existing biases. Mumsnet shows that all the time!

A lot of mitigating factors within schools, would be very expensive, disruptive and time consuming. (Better ventilation, more space, opening windows etc)
However the government found money for their cronies T and T, PPE etc, and had large periods of time where schools were largely unused (last summer holidays, January-March...and now the up coming school holidays)
I'm not saying every school could have had changes made but what the betting that none have, and no plans have been made to do so..

@Turquoisesol

It really is quite alarming how dismissive the government now is about the rate of Covid in the country and the acceptance that all Children can now just get and they will keep their fingers crossed it all works out and there are no long term effects. It’s a big gamble on our children’s health.

Agreed, although it's not just children getting it their siblings and parents are at risk too even if vaccinated. True that the risk of serious illness is reduced but the quarantine period is not changing if you have Covid so it causes massive disruption at the very least.

@Quartz2208

“Because control the virus doesnt actually mean anything. Life for everyone would be much easier if the Delta variant hadnt occurred but it is naive to think that we could have kept it at bay. It would have always arrived. Just like it has in 50% of the world countries”

But delaying it enough to get all 18+ vaccinated properly would have been a start.

Then a big push for over 12’s.

Meanwhile, allow daily tests instead of isolation for schoolchildren.

Allow all children who can or choose to work from home to do so for the next 2 weeks.

Spread the remaining kids out at school, making use of all available space and outdoors as much as possible. Plenty of outdoor play and pe.

[quote Watermelon221]@Quartz2208

“Because control the virus doesnt actually mean anything. Life for everyone would be much easier if the Delta variant hadnt occurred but it is naive to think that we could have kept it at bay. It would have always arrived. Just like it has in 50% of the world countries”

But delaying it enough to get all 18+ vaccinated properly would have been a start.

Then a big push for over 12’s.

Meanwhile, allow daily tests instead of isolation for schoolchildren.

Allow all children who can or choose to work from home to do so for the next 2 weeks.

Spread the remaining kids out at school, making use of all available space and outdoors as much as possible. Plenty of outdoor play and pe.[/quote]
Have you seen the weather for the next week - at least where I am its raining for most of the week!

Also allowing children who can work from home to do so again adds to the self isolation issue - how does that work alongside daily testing. Where would you do that? At home or at school

Both of those still add to the anxiety and educational issues. Not only that but the sheer amount of admin involved in setting it up in two weeks

And again with the over 12's there is still some pesky ethical issues relating to the myocarditis and lack of proper testing to be given to children. Not to say I wouldnt give it to my DD just that they exist.

It is very much a Sophie's Choice here - and I agree something needs to be done its just difficult to see something that actually works

@Quartz2208 except people we read his statement and think ‘flu’ - Covid is now as problematic as flu, and we live with it like flu. Perhaps.

I’ve said this on other threads - but we are an individualistic nation who put and individualistic government in power. The best response to Covid I would speculate - Is a collective/socialist response which is just not what the Tories are about.

So it’s been confusion all the way.
And now it appears to be - let’s crack on, save the economy and get back to normal.
Except - god help you if you need the NHS over the winter.
I’m terms of science, I think it IS possible to judge articles that appear peer researched and free from bias. And to gauge a worldwide consensus on a subject.

Delta has arrived in dozens of countries.

It's the response when it arrives that dictates whether it dominates the population's lives or not.

I feel that we've spoken before, and you've asked me this before, and I always say the same thing:

A border policy and quarantine that works.

A test trace and isolate system that works.

If you have those it doesn't take off in the community and cause all the problems you must.

Our kids only have to repeatedly isolate because of bad pandemic management.

We only have to repeatedly lockdown because of bad pandemic management.

The more cases, the more problems.

And our government's policy decisions are about to lead to a LOT of cases.

Again.

@Quartz2208 I keep saying that! It is like Sophie’s choice.

I’m terms of the myocarditis that you mention, it is SO important to see the relative risk. At least there is some control over the vaccine, and we can get some idea of the potential side effects/risks. There appears a lot less control over Covid itself - how it will mutate, pims, long Covid, possible type 1 diabetes link etc. And on balance the risk of Covid is far, far greater to society than the risk of the vaccine.

Is it really dominating our lives though? Yes, cases have rises but hospitalisations and deaths are still low and restrictions are still being eased. I don’t feel like coronavirus is dominating my life at all.

We should be concerned about isolations. We should be concerned about the push to vaccination. Apart from that not concerned in the least.

@Turquoisesol

It really is quite alarming how dismissive the government now is about the rate of Covid in the country and the acceptance that all Children can now just get and they will keep their fingers crossed it all works out and there are no long term effects. It’s a big gamble on our children’s health.

The government must have a good idea for each million cases how many British adults will die, how many will go to hospital, how many will get Long Covid...

And

How many children will die, how many will go to hospital, how many will get Long Covid...

And apparently the government are ok with that.

Right now the decision lies with the JCVI on relative risk.

I wish people would separate them out, but so far not much luck.

why is the government pressing on prematurely of the JCVI decision though?

@bumbleymummy

Is it really dominating our lives though? Yes, cases have rises but hospitalisations and deaths are still low and restrictions are still being eased. I don’t feel like coronavirus is dominating my life at all.

What has kept us in restrictions for an extra month after "Freedom Day" and our children repeatedly isolating?

What will either prevent July 19th happening OR lead to a reimposition of restrictions soon afterwards when it rapidly goes to shit?

Delta.

Well yes, princess, people become seriously ill/die all the time from various viruses. A certain level is expected and accepted.

I worried about my children getting covid, until the day they had their positive test result. One was asymptomatic, the other sneezed a few times at bedtime.

It's a very mild virus in the majority of cases.

Bumble, it is dominating lives where we have repeated school or contact iaolations. I have 3 dc isolating on a rota at times - I have lost count of the times I've let work down, of where I've signed up for something and paid in advance only to have to not go. Where I've offered to help at a club or activity and had to pull out last minute... We've got a few little UK breaks and visits planned over the summer and it is all so fragile - I can't make any firm plans because so far nothing I plan actually happens! I feel completely dominated!

I've not seen an optician or dentist since autumn 2019. I desperately need to but I've had to wait patiently for appointments weeks away, and then cancelled due to isolating. I'm then back of the queue and waiting weeks/months for the next ones.