Should we be worried about our children?

[Moonme]

I know several families that are having to isolate due to children being in contact with cases at school. It seems like the Government is going for a herd immunity strategy amongst the young. Should we be concerned about this? I know the risk of dying is super low but I’ve seen a few doctors on Twitter (respected UK Drs) saying we shouldn’t be playing fast and loose with a novel virus as we don’t know the long term impacts.
What are your thoughts?

Just taking the temperature of the thread @Regulus.

What's the priority here?

Protecting our children?

Or defending and supporting the political party throwing them into the path of danger.

The risk to children thing is really difficult. If schools didn't need adults, and children didn't lie with adults, then of course it would be absolutely fine to corral all children in schools and allow the infection to run through them. Few children - though obviously some - would become very ill and there would then be some protection from infection for that group going forwards.

However, schools and home contain adults. Younger school staff have only just had their first dose of the vaccine, and are thus not properly protected against delta. I don't think we yet have data on he risk of infection to a vaccinated adult from spending 6 hours with 30+ infected children, do we? We do know that some double vaccinated adults do catch Covid, and that few of them become very ill, but i don't think we know he effect of viral load on that equation?

Equally, homes contain adults who may not have mounted a good response to the vaccine - and of course won't know that unless and until they become affected.

Keeping infections low...now that would have been a good plan all round, though now abandoned because it's too boring....

I think we should be worried about our children's mental health from these repeated isolations.

@cantkeepawayforever

The risk to children thing is really difficult. If schools didn't need adults, and children didn't lie with adults, then of course it would be absolutely fine to corral all children in schools and allow the infection to run through them. Few children - though obviously some - would become very ill and there would then be some protection from infection for that group going forwards.

However, schools and home contain adults. Younger school staff have only just had their first dose of the vaccine, and are thus not properly protected against delta. I don't think we yet have data on he risk of infection to a vaccinated adult from spending 6 hours with 30+ infected children, do we? We do know that some double vaccinated adults do catch Covid, and that few of them become very ill, but i don't think we know he effect of viral load on that equation?

Equally, homes contain adults who may not have mounted a good response to the vaccine - and of course won't know that unless and until they become affected.

Keeping infections low...now that would have been a good plan all round, though now abandoned because it's too boring....

Too boring? What an odd / funny thing to say.

No costs associated with keep cases low, no recognition of hospitalisation data.

Just read this:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/top-scientist-savages-sajid-javid-24456506.amp

@BraveBraveMouse

I think we should be worried about our children's mental health from these repeated isolations.

We should.

Which of these scenarios would be better for reducing disruption to education and children's mental health

If the virus is allowed free rein?

If the virus is safely controlled?

@PrincessNutNuts

I hate my kids being ill.

I'd do anything to protect them.

I would certainly do all I could to protect them from being ill for months or years, and possibly getting brain damage.

You?

I don't disagree with your sentiment but I would (and have) vaccinate my children against chickenpox and Tick borne encephalitis way way before considering a Covid vaccine for them based simply on the statistical risk to their health. Along with of course encouraging healthy eating and exercise.

But it seems the rest of the country appears to think that you can only die or suffer long term health issues from Covid.

@PrincessNutNuts agree with you completely.

[quote Hornbill123456789]@PrincessNutNuts agree with you completely.[/quote]
What do you want borders closed for how long? Or something else

@AnyFucker

Yes. I am worried.

About their education. About their mental health. About the increasing isolation and lack of safeguarding for children in violent homes. About the undiagnosed and unmonitored serious illnesses bubbling under. About their reducing ability to fight other infections than COVID.

Not about COVID itself. The country has collectively lost its fucking mind where that is concerned.

This.

@BraveBraveMouse

I think we should be worried about our children's mental health from these repeated isolations.

I agree, but I don’t think it has to be such a polarised thing. I can care about ds’s physical health and mental health, and that of others at the same time. I can see how hard covid hit ds mentally as well as physically. He missed the entire summer term at school on top of lockdowns and isolation periods, as he wasn’t well enough. Me being worried that other kids might suffer the same effects certainly doesn’t mean I want kids locked down forever, or don’t understand the impact on their mental health.

But it’s not a binary choice, unfortunately. Throwing kids into the face of covid means some will get ill, with varying levels of seriousness*. Are we supposed to just cross our fingers and hope it’s not our kid?

(*Yes, I am aware that other viruses cause post viral complications. But where mitagations against covid, flu, and similar are available ignoring it seems perverse.)

@DGFB

You can’t just keep suppressing the virus forever can you?

Like we do with most high consequence viruses you mean?

We don't just let children get polio do we?

"Most children who are infected with polio have no symptoms. A few have a temperature and mild illness. The virus is most known for attacking the nervous system and causing paralysis. But very few children with polio develop paralysis."

Too boring? What an odd / funny thing to say. No costs associated with keep cases low, no recognition of hospitalisation data.

Among the public, the cry seems to be 'It's been going on too long! I'm done with it now' .... which I interpret as boredom and frustration?

The only way children won’t get it is if vaccine is approved for under 12

Iirc no country is using it for this age group.

It will spread in in under 12s once borders open, which they will. Unless age use changes.

Thanks @Hornbill123456789
I think it really is hard for people to understand how scary it was. We had to call 111 and 999 as ds was coughing so hard that it was affecting his breathing, he was crying from the pain in his chest. Their response? “Unfortunately we can’t admit him unless his lips are turning blue.” I couldn’t believe it. I honestly had thought people were exaggerating about that. The stress of having to sit with him through that for days. Then when that bit clears up, seeing him come out on a full body rash and nearly collapse, seeing him swelling up, watching him shaking after walking from his bed to the living room, having to carry him home after a walk to the park, not knowing if he would actually ever get better.

Apologies if that scares anyone. Like I said, that’s a relatively rare reaction and I would love for no other children to have to go through that. I can understand that people who haven’t seen how bad it can be and think it’s just like a cold must be very frustrated by all the lockdowns and isolations and what seems like hyperbole. I don’t know what the answer is.

And please don’t read my post and comment “but flu can have the same effect!” Flu’s horrible too, but it’s not a novel fucking virus whose side effects you don’t yet know.

If it is herd immunity or vaccination we should get a choice. Those who block the vaccine force those who want the vaccine to be part of herd immunity without consent. It’s unethical.

@SomeKindOfFloppyWeirdo

Mis-c isn’t associated with flu

That’s exactly my point, @bumbleymummy (also not sure how you missed from my post that I know exactly what MIS-C is, given what ds has been through.)

And I have tried to find figures for post viral fatigue after influenza for children, both in the uk and the USA, but couldn’t find any info. Maybe you’ll have more luck, in your attempts to dismiss what kids like ds have gone through. What a fun project for a Sunday

Your well wishes for my ds, if they indeed exist, are much appreciated.

What? I haven’t dismissed what your son has gone through. I replied to a single line post of yours where you asked me about Mis-c after flu.

My previous post was in response to another poster quoting figures for hospitalisations/deaths and they are in line with figures for flu.

Sorry your ds has been unwell but you really don’t need to be an ass to people for not noticing your name on a single line post and associating it with one of your previous posts.

@bumbleymummy But your post did dismiss what children affected by covid go through. Not intentionally, probably, but by saying “oh just the same as flu then” and neglecting to factor in the effect of conditions like MIS-C/long covid, which make it different to flu. Hence my question.

I wasn’t “being an ass” because you didn’t notice my name, I was being an ass at the offhand dismissal/downplaying of covid in children.

I’m torn between saying sorry for being and ass, and saying let me be ass, it’s been a hell of a year with this illness on top of everything else that everyone’s been going through and the barrage on mumsnet (not you in particular) that “covid doesn’t even affect children”.

@SomeKindOfFloppyWeirdo that’s bloody awful, your poor son - and poor you. What a horrible thing to go through.
I think it’s really important to hear, so thank you for sharing.
Again - I think my niece’s reaction was uncommon - but my sister was beside herself with worry with the constant high temperature - and having no idea what was causing it. She couldn’t take her to the doctor - and then the doctor was off for a couple of days. When doctor returned she was immediately admitted to hospital. Then there was all the stress of - could a parent stay with her, would she be on a Covid ward - the cannula, blood test results - all very scary for a ten year old.

Ok, I can understand your frustration and it does sound like you’ve had a shitty year.

I’m not trying to downplay it, just put it in perspective. Some children do get hospitalised and suffer severe complications after flu (and other viruses). In a way, we’re almost belittling their experience by saying ‘oh, but covid is worse’.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/top-scientist-savages-sajid-javid-24456506.amp

Javid here is being lambasted here for comparing Covid to flu. Bonkers is what scientists are saying about government’s plan…

@MarshaBradyo

The only way children won’t get it is if vaccine is approved for under 12

Iirc no country is using it for this age group.

It will spread in in under 12s once borders open, which they will. Unless age use changes.

under 12 are bit less susceptible though, smaller schools & years groups too, often.

unvaccinated teens is where the bigger problem would be

Its so mentally exhausting right now as parent and pupil/ teacher.
I get people are tired/ bored frustrated I really do but if we say something is so like the data looks good and the pandemics over doesn't make it so.

Don't know if its only my kids

They worry they might burst the class bubble and be to blame.
They worry about passing it on so although grandad had 2 jabs az so less effective against delta and immunocomprimised we might have quiet 10 days at home in August then see him outdoors.
So yes its restricting me seeing older more vulnerable family members.

I feel like maybe I shouldn't plan and book things as theres a threshold if disappointment levels the kids have had so much cancelled.
I have 1 child with SEN he doesn't cope well with uncertainty and the mental health of my 11 year old ending year 6 is at an all time low.
My toddlers desperate get out and meet people but no toddler groups or local softplay at leisure centre is closed .
Hoping my 3 year old has some immunity from her 3 older siblings she due start nursery seot only gets 1 year funding as term after 3rd birthday so if next academic year is disrupted I'm wondering if should delay reception start as shes summer born.

Also a key point is each strain if covid us different..
There has been stuff in USA recently effects of delta ob kids.
When it was India or Brazil was too easy to say on mumsnet its because they poor or poor healthcare.

Theres a heck of lot poverty in the UK and our NHS is not in good shape .

It really is quite alarming how dismissive the government now is about the rate of Covid in the country and the acceptance that all Children can now just get and they will keep their fingers crossed it all works out and there are no long term effects. It’s a big gamble on our children’s health.