ONS report - majority of parents would vaccinate their children

[Dustyboots]

Would you?

They're gunning for this now. I find that worrying.

twitter.com/chrischirp/status/1410589646040580106/photo/1

That actually made me snort. I don’t even think you know what you’re arguing ZZ. Maybe read people’s posts properly first?

@ZZTopGuitarSolo

As has been repeated multiple times, it drastically decreases risk. The fact that it doesn't bring it down to zero isn't really relevant, as most things in medicine are are about degrees of risk rather than a binary safe/not safe scenario.

I think this point may be a little too complicated for bumbley to understand. We tried...

I've tried one final time but now I think I must be off

You are trying to argue that herd immunity primarily by vaccination is not necessary for coronavirus, but that is because you drastically underestimate it's impact.

No I’m not. Where have I said this?

@bumbleymummy

You are trying to argue that herd immunity primarily by vaccination is not necessary for coronavirus, but that is because you drastically underestimate it's impact.

No I’m not. Where have I said this?

You have repeatedly stated that only those vulnerable to coronavirus need to be vaccinated? Cba to do a search but I think you've said CEV and the over 60s in previous posts

I really don’t think you’re in the position to be patronising when you’ve misunderstood what I’ve said to the degree that you have above Have a lovely evening.

I've tried one final time but now I think I must be off grin

It was a good effort but in vain... ah well...

Not on this thread I’m not.

This was my original post from this particular conversation that you and zz have jumped on :

“ That’s all well and good but not everyone feels the same way about vaccinating their children so those immunocompromised people will always be at risk of encountering someone who isn’t vaccinated (for whatever reason) - just as they’re at risk of encountering people with flu or other viruses that could make them ill.”

So please explain, without reciting my own arguments back at me, what you disagree with about this comment. There is nothing there that isn’t a fact. And I know how the decisions are made in relation to choosing which vaccines are given to the population as a whole. That doesn’t negate the points I made above. Tbh I think you know that but you lost like to argue

I've no interest in winning or losing an argument but it does really worry me that people still don't understand herd immunity.

(I know you say you do, but you clearly don't.)

I’m really not sure why you think that but you are wrong. I’ve actually had to explain the concept to quite a lot of people over the years. You’d be surprised how many people think their own vaccine doesn’t work until ‘herd immunity’ has been reached by vaccinating a certain percentage of people around them. Strange but true.

bumbleymummy, I first thought you are deliberately saying what you are saying knowing it's false. But now I realised that you really believe what you say is true. It's very clear there is fundamental misconception in your understanding or knowledge. But I assume you will never believe it.

@bumbleymummy

Why does it worry you, nobody will be forcing you to have your kids done?!

Well technically no one is forcing adults to have it but look at people’s reactions to and treatment of people who have decided not to. Do you really think children won’t be treated the same way and will feel pressured into having it? I think you’re quite naive if you don’t think that will be the case.

Totally agree with this.

I am really on the fence about vaccinating my children re Covid. My eldest is 15 so ultimately it's up to him, but I will have a long chat with him re all possible side effects etc and if he wants it after that, then I will give my consent. But my youngest only turns 12 this year and is not able yet to make an informed choice so am unsure whether I will consent or not.

I personally don't care if others choose differently to me, and can understand why others want their kids vaccinated.

But the vaccination of kids will just become the new thing people will be judgmental about, that's a given. People will not only be so rude as to ask outright if your child is vaccinated, but will expect an answer and an explanation as to why you have not vaccinated, which they feel they have the right to pull apart.

@roguetomato

No, if I remember correctly, no one said that needing vaccine passport for foreign travel was conspiracy, because it already exist. Some people were saying it's likely, through their own experience. I also have own experience needing certificate for vaccination to live and go to school in foreign country, so I didn't think it was unlikely either. What's unlikely is needing vaccine passport for everyday life. I'm sure many people, including vaccinated will oppose to that to certain degree.

Plenty people on here have argued that a vaccine passport will be required to get into cinemas, theatres and even non essential shops. Places of work too, such as offices. It's a regularly asked question from employers when there they can insist their workforce is vaccinated. And not medical or care home settings asking either.

The euros and Wimbledon are test events. For Wimbledon you need to either be double vaccinated or have a negative test to enter.

Only yesterday there was a thread on here where the op was saying that vaccinations and tests in school should be compulsory.

Quite a lot of people on here say they think they have the right to know friends vaccination statuses so can decide if they will socialise with them or not. Lots of people on here have also argued for more comprehensive vaccine passports as they want the reassurance that if they go into a restaurant, everyone in there has been vaccinated.

tigger1001, I agree that there are people who has extreme views. I'd like to be more neutral and balanced, though I'm definitely inclined to one side. But I don't believe people should be harassed or discriminated because of their choice.

@Unanananana

My DD12 is getting a vaccine as soon as she is allowed. She has also asked for the flu vaccine (privately) this year as they stop having the nasal spray after yr 7.

We are incredibly fortunate to have vaccines that work. The more people that have them, the more protected those that can't have them are as well as ourselves. Gives teaching unions one less thing to use to try and pressure the government into shutting schools as well.

She will be offered the flu spray this year at school surely because every year they increase is up one year so all y8’s will be offered this year?

No way.

@roguetomato

bumbleymummy, I first thought you are deliberately saying what you are saying knowing it's false. But now I realised that you really believe what you say is true. It's very clear there is fundamental misconception in your understanding or knowledge. But I assume you will never believe it.

My understanding or knowledge of what? :)

twitter.com/ezralevant/status/1411404586687123458

This is what my thoughts were when I started this thread.

@Dustyboots

twitter.com/ezralevant/status/1411404586687123458

This is what my thoughts were when I started this thread.

I think best to take advice regarding the benefits and risks of vaccinating children from the experts rather than a random television presenter parroting things he doesn't understand.

He has previously claimed lockdowns are the greatest mistake in world history (yes - worse than slavery, Stalinism, concentration camps, just to name a few).

FT article yesterday…
Unjabbed Teenagers Risk Turning Schools into Viral Reservoirs

The UK cannot achieve herd immunity against Covid-19 without vaccinating its over-12s.

www.ft.com/content/eb4be47a-56b7-4f38-b8ec-70d61cd7227b

Couple of quotes…

Christina Pagel, a member of the Independent Sage group of science advisers, notes that herd immunity requires about 85 per cent of the population to be immune, and children make up 21 per cent of the UK population. In short, the UK’s “vaccine wall” has a large, teen-shaped hole in it. That, in turn, means either ongoing transmission, with all its risks (the vaccines are great but not perfect) or continued interventions like social distancing. This capricious virus has the capacity to evolve further. Leaving older children unjabbed risks creating viral reservoirs capable of cooking up future variants, some of which might not be as benign to the young.

…and…

Arguably, offering (not mandating) first doses to willing teens, supply permitting, before school ends this month would have been a reasonable strategy to protect children, blunt community transmission and favourably adjust the risk ahead of a September return to the classroom.

Instead, the UK is entering the second summer of the Covid-19 pandemic much as it entered the first: talking tough against a shape-shifting virus that responds only to deeds, not words. Without fast, strategic thinking on difficult issues such as teenage vaccination and indoor ventilation, Javid’s bid to loosen all restrictions on July 19 will spell Freedom Day for the virus, as well as for us.

Yes I would and as it wouldn’t be mandatory I don’t see why you’re worried. You can say no if it happens but we can’t say yes if it doesn’t.

If your child is Gillick competent and they offer vaccines to children and they want the vaccine I don’t think you as a parent will have much choice. And isn’t medical consent from 16 not 18? I’m sure DS had to sign the consent form for the LFT once he hit 16.

@ZZTopGuitarSolo

FT article yesterday… Unjabbed Teenagers Risk Turning Schools into Viral Reservoirs

The UK cannot achieve herd immunity against Covid-19 without vaccinating its over-12s.

www.ft.com/content/eb4be47a-56b7-4f38-b8ec-70d61cd7227b

Couple of quotes…

Christina Pagel, a member of the Independent Sage group of science advisers, notes that herd immunity requires about 85 per cent of the population to be immune, and children make up 21 per cent of the UK population. In short, the UK’s “vaccine wall” has a large, teen-shaped hole in it. That, in turn, means either ongoing transmission, with all its risks (the vaccines are great but not perfect) or continued interventions like social distancing. This capricious virus has the capacity to evolve further. Leaving older children unjabbed risks creating viral reservoirs capable of cooking up future variants, some of which might not be as benign to the young.

…and…

Arguably, offering (not mandating) first doses to willing teens, supply permitting, before school ends this month would have been a reasonable strategy to protect children, blunt community transmission and favourably adjust the risk ahead of a September return to the classroom.

Instead, the UK is entering the second summer of the Covid-19 pandemic much as it entered the first: talking tough against a shape-shifting virus that responds only to deeds, not words. Without fast, strategic thinking on difficult issues such as teenage vaccination and indoor ventilation, Javid’s bid to loosen all restrictions on July 19 will spell Freedom Day for the virus, as well as for us.

As this is a global pandemic, I’m more concerned that vaccines are not being shared with all countries and neither is technology cos profit. That will create a huge reservoir for mutation.

It won’t be long until all school kids will have had it naturally and we can then do the decent thing and send vaccines abroad and also avoid vaccine damaging otherwise healthy children

@bumbleymummy

Why does it worry you, nobody will be forcing you to have your kids done?!

Well technically no one is forcing adults to have it but look at people’s reactions to and treatment of people who have decided not to. Do you really think children won’t be treated the same way and will feel pressured into having it? I think you’re quite naive if you don’t think that will be the case.

This ∆ What's happening now with adults will be the same with children. The pressure and absolute obsession with having them all vaccinated. The vile attitudes and judgement. No way is mine having it and I'll take whatever consequences that brings.

Actually I’m not just worried for my kids. I’m worried about all children on a societal level. My kids friends.

I don’t believe we should be vaccinating these young and healthy children when we know that some will suffer severe problems as a result or even die. And we still don’t know the long term effects - if any - if these new style vaccines. We had, for example, no idea they would cause menstrual issues and we don’t know how long that takes to clear up. Not such an issue in an older person (to some) but devastating to a young teen.