Anti-lockdowners pretending to care about kids again

[noblegiraffe]

So it's all over the news about how nearly 400,000 kids are having to isolate because of covid cases in schools. Complaints about how disruptive to education it is and to the mental health of the children involved. This disruptive isolation must end as soon as possible.

Contrast to last November when nearly a million kids were self-isolating in a week. Do you remember the headlines, discussions and outrage about that?

No, of course you don't. Because back then, the solution to so many kids isolating was to put more mitigation measures in schools and attempt to stop so many kids catching it.

Now they can argue that it doesn't matter if all kids catch it, they're all over the 'terrible' isolation figures which are less than half of those last year.

I'm SO done with people only caring about kids and education when they think that they can use them for their own benefit.

If these loud voices could be used to talk about things like the cuts to pupil premium, the pitiful covid catch-up funding, the critical shortage of teachers, the unsafe state of schools, the massive waiting lists for CAMHS and SEN services, then maybe I'd believe them when they claim to care about children.

Plus Noble has zero impact on government policy. So what good would ‘listening to her’ have done?

I think we all knew full well that the government would put zero money in to schools. So we need to work with what we have. A useless government that prioritises men and football. Time to prioritise children.

The ‘mitigation in schools’ ship has sailed. It was never launched.

If you’d listened to her last April, you could have gained hours more teaching time for your children and not experienced all these ‘bubbles’ bursting.

What exactly was I as a parent supposed to do differently according to her?

If politicians can shag their staff on works time, it's safe for the kids to go back to school.

I've been complaining about this for the last 18 months. You just chose not to listen in November.

At least there’s a bit of noise on the news about this tonight. Finally.

@noblegiraffe

If I had a school aged child I’d be concerned about isolations and burst bubbles.

Of course you would. However these people who are now so terribly concerned about isolations and burst bubbles did not give a shit about the same issue in November. Any suggestion of mitigations in schools back then in order to reduce spread resulted in personal abuse.

Of course they sodding did. And perhaps if you didn't get paid every time your child had to isolate, so would you. The blatant truth is that masks didn't make a shit of difference.

@shetlandponies

I really hope noble isn't one of my kids teachers. it's possible though as most of them are total covid crybabies concerned only with their own "safety"

@Teateaandmoretea

I think OP just wants a little rant

The rants are practically daily, plus hijacking any other thread about schools.

Oh dear.

@hamstersarse

Tbh noble I think people just cba to argue with you, you’re totally dogmatic and it’s pointless.

Spot on

The only faux concern about children throughout all of this has been from you with your constant posts, where you basically were concerned for yourself before any of the children you claim to care about

Yet here you are.

What does even mean @echt?!?!

@shetlandponies

I really hope noble isn't one of my kids teachers. it's possible though as most of them are total covid crybabies concerned only with their own "safety"

Reported.

Offensive and unnecessary. What an absolutely horrible post.

That’s not really going to help. They need their lives back.

These children and young people with heartbreaking mental health issues can’t get their lives back without professional mental health support that is currently being denied to them face to face and on long waiting lists, with school staff having to help support as best they can in addition to their workload.

You are exactly who noble is talking about in that you assume all that children need, is to be back in school, job done. No other mitigations including funding needed. ‘Don’t need to think about them anymore’ (at least, that is what your posts have read so far).

It’s very interesting reading posts from some regulars who have always shut down noble and new posters or name changers who still don’t fully read the opening posts or at least, take in what is being said.

I hate having to self isolate. noble hates having to self isolate. Yet so many factors and culpable people and bodies have resulted in our current situation, which was foreseen by many teachers and school staff on here and was shut down by the same old posters in the same way.

In 10-20 years’ time we’ll also know just how many children - by then adult - were and still are being affected by Long Covid. We’ll also be able to compare more definitively with other countries where masks were worn in schools or extra ventilation was installed.

Then we’ll be able to finally assess “what we’ve done to children”.

I've been concerned about children from the start. Mine struggled despite being in a pretty privilaged position. Tens of thousands have suffered far, far more with stage of education, housing, parental support, resources, access to outdoor space, isopation periods.

Education has been cocked up from the start. Schools should have been back last May as one of the first things. Half the children in the system should not have been abandoned for nearly 6 months and then face a massive immune system update just in time for the colds season. After the first wave was calmed, government policy has encouraged the banking up of waves rather than allowing a more steady, managable pace last summer.

As far as I remember about Noble's ideas, they were always chronically unrealistic until vaccines were released. I would have supported teachers being prioritised to normalise education.
But a government that had chronically underfunded schools and support services for so many years was never going to prioritise schools for the magic money tree. No return on the investment unlike PPE and its other dubious contracts.
So no, they weren't going to double the size of schools and teaching staff to half the classes. Most schools don't have the site to accommodate that, there isn't the infrastructure to support it and the alternative of blended learning just disadvantages the disadvantaged... basically you've ended up with a situation not vastly dissimilar to the disruption from isolations in terms of learning impact. Other than opening windows (often futile with irritatingly restricted openings anyway) improving ventilation is not a quick, affordable or practical demand. I would approve updates to buipding regs on new buildings/ significant renovations, but most existing school buildings are poorly suited. Thousands are riddled with asbestos. Upgrading ventilation is many millions of pounds and would take many academic years to achieve.
Masks I have always resisted because of their dubious efficacy and disruption to communication and behaviour.
Bubbles are about the best of a bad job, but shutting down whole year groups for one or two individuals is a very damaging policy.

By September teachers will have had the opportunity to be vaccinated and education needs to resume pretty much as normal most of the time. If there is a specific and particularly large outbreak (such as a month ago in Derbyshire) then temporary measures may still be needed as sometimes happens with other illnesses such as norovirus. But families should not have the constant fear of isolations triggered by anyone in the bubble being ill.

I've been angry for a bloody long time. Hearing 2/3s of school playing on the fields while my unworthy children were loney and depressed at home facing more months of the charade of home learning was pretty good for triggering anger. My little rebellion was illegally trespassing into playgrounds until the government had the lunacy of that one pointed out to them and children got their slides at the same time as the pubs opened (not the swings that had to be put back) not that all playgrounds opened as the penpushers stressed the finer details of cleaning and distancing

So no, they weren't going to double the size of schools and teaching staff to half the classes.

Which wasn't on my list.

the alternative of blended learning just disadvantages the disadvantaged

Wasn't on my list

improving ventilation is not a quick, affordable or practical demand.

Other countries have managed it by purchasing machines.

Masks I have always resisted because of their dubious efficacy

Studies disagree.

Bubbles are about the best of a bad job, but shutting down whole year groups for one or two individuals is a very damaging policy.

Unmitigated covid spread led to the closure of schools from Jan to March so was hardly a great alternative.

@ChloeDecker

That’s not really going to help. They need their lives back.

These children and young people with heartbreaking mental health issues can’t get their lives back without professional mental health support that is currently being denied to them face to face and on long waiting lists, with school staff having to help support as best they can in addition to their workload.

You are exactly who noble is talking about in that you assume all that children need, is to be back in school, job done. No other mitigations including funding needed. ‘Don’t need to think about them anymore’ (at least, that is what your posts have read so far).

It’s very interesting reading posts from some regulars who have always shut down noble and new posters or name changers who still don’t fully read the opening posts or at least, take in what is being said.

I hate having to self isolate. noble hates having to self isolate. Yet so many factors and culpable people and bodies have resulted in our current situation, which was foreseen by many teachers and school staff on here and was shut down by the same old posters in the same way.

Absolute nonsense.

Open up the face to face services that children need then. And stop advocating for more and more restrictions on their lives which are the things that are causing the issues.

I don’t think you have any understanding of mental health, even at a basic level

I think there is a big grey space between needing professional mental health support and your mental (and physical) health being adversely effected by the lockdowns.

I think it’s possible to feel cheated out of your rites of passage, friendships, opportunities and fun without having ‘serious mental health problems’ but nonetheless having a sense of sadness and a sense of things not being quite completed. I actually didn’t complete year 11 myself, though I did do my exams, and even now there remains a feeling of everything left hanging.

Some people will say that this is unimportant and I am not sure I agree although it pales next to a pandemic of course. But sometimes how you feel about something is just how you feel. It might or might not be logical or sensible but you feel as you do about it.

So someone might feel angry, resentful, upset, sad - I’ve felt all of these - but not have mental health issues. Just normal range of feelings. Obviously mental health problems are important but I am not sure it’s as straightforward as donating to a charity and considering it job done.

Skimming over the personal attacks here, I think a lot of people have a lot to be angry about. I would be here all day listing them. Is it helpful to highlight it? I’m not sure. It’s definitely not the job of anybody on MN to sort it now or in the past.

The solution in my eyes was and is; don’t have kids isolate full stop.

@hamstersarse

What does even mean *@echt*?!?!

Open up the face to face services that children need then

What are these?

We have highly effective vaccines. The vulnerable are vaccinated. Get a grip
@WouldBeGood
Indeed-this is what needs repeating over and over again, not pointless harping about what people should or should not have thought/said/done last November.
This obsession with posters only being allowed to express opinion if they have if they have been prolific posters with s single agenda is ridiculous. Luckily new people join MN, people dip in and out, and people change their minds in the face of new evidence. Not everyone has s fixation on a single point of view and countless hours free to post.

Open up the face to face services that children need then. And stop advocating for more and more restrictions on their lives which are the things that are causing the issues.

Again, someone wilfully choosing not to read what is being said, just to have an attack.
I would LOVE for those services to open up face to face and have advocated for that since Oct 2020 on here and lobbied my MP and spent hours and hours on the phone to these services, unlike the many posters who always ignore this side of children mental health in the rush to get children back to school, ‘no ifs no buts’. Job done. The hob is never done.

I have never advocated for more restrictions in children going to school and have always said I want them in, so stop gaslighting me. I have advocated for better ventilation, better services to support children’s return to school….what have you done?

I don’t think you have any understanding of mental health, even at a basic level

The reason why I have advocated for this is because I have been having to support and watch young people struggle and get worse and worse because no professional will/would see them face to face despite it apparently being fine for me to do so so don’t you dare tell me I have no understanding of mental health when I have to deal with panic attacks, children cutting themselves in the school toilets, school refusers and violence, regularly.

But thank you for posting. It is very important that people get to read what you and others are writing and see what we are up against.

I guess it’s because in winter there were far more people dying of covid than there are now, and also no one was vaccinated so it was a different situation.

I’m not anti lockdown and I’ll stick to whatever rules may or may not be put back into place at any point. I’m also a teacher. I think you have a very different situation when the number of deaths isn’t rising above 20, vs when it was in the hundreds.

I’m not saying many isolations then couldn’t have been prevented, but it’s about at what point we start saying that we can’t justify making children isolate at the drop of a hat anymore.

I am well aware of the (lack of) mitigation measures that have been in place throughout, and how that contributed to disrupted education for children, and I was on threads about that under a different name. I’m just saying the situation right now is not comparable to what it was in November. I don’t think further isolation for children can be justified.

@BogRollBOGOF I agree with you. Especially the part about kids going back last May. One of the worst mistakes was sending them all back in September just as we went in to autumn/winter cold and flu season.

Masks may work when worn correctly. Secondary school children do not use or wear them correctly. They fiddle/play with them then reuse many times. This is not how they are supposed to be used.

All restrictions on children in schools should stop (and should have been stopped ages ago).

These threads first started because teachers were worried about getting Covid. Then when that wasn't the shit storm that was predicted it changed to begin angry about mitigations - things that the average parent could do nothing about. They are now just pointless rants from a smaller and smaller group of people who hate the government and want to highlight the underfunding of schools (they have a point there) and have started to believe in their own agenda so deeply that anyone who doesn't agree is branded a paid shill. The posters saying we should have all listened to noble - why? What influence does noble have? Precisely zero.