'We've not been out since all this started'

[TheVampiresWife]

I heard this yesterday from someone DH works with (they're all wfh). A couple in their late 40s, no health issues with no vulnerabilities, fully vaccinated but 'you can't be too careful'.

They've not left the house apart from their vaccine appointments since the start of the first lockdown.

I understand how worrying it's all been for some people, particularly if you're vulnerable or have health anxiety. But it's so sad that people are this terrified. I wonder how they'll cope when restrictions end. The MH fallout from all this is going to be massive, isn't it?

It's very sad. Rather than sneer and jeer some empathy perhaps.

It.might be extreme to you and me but it is obviously the result of fear at the root cause. Imagine living that scared?? I doubt they've had a blast and are loving life.

It's a coping mechanism. An unhealthy one but bordering mental illness. Its not lockdown top trumps. A little kindness and thankfulness you've not been compelled to behave the same isn't much to ask.

I worry that the fear is so great for some people they will never be able to function in society again.

We were very careful to begin with as we have young DC and no family or friends who could have helped if we were hospitalized.

(And yes did benefit from the work and exposure of people less well off than us ☹️)

But as soon as we got vaccinated we took a trip to California. Yay vaccine!

Despite one posters attempts to get all of us to shut up I think it is worth discussing on here and I have had discussions in RL Maybe ignore any poster trying to get this thread pulled for their own personal reasons.

I have seen various responses with some saying they won't venture out until covid has gone and you still get some looking like you will murder them if you come within 2 meters.

The media and government have been drilling into people how dangerous it is for months while occasionally commenting that for most its asymptotic or a mild illness. Some people only hear the fact that if you get covid you will die. Everyday it is reported that a few people died with covid. Why is that news worthy when if you die of something else it is not. There is never any context with those numbers.

If you have never been out of your house and just listen to the briefings you might be getting a warped sense of what is happening.

@Bythemillpond

I worry that the fear is so great for some people they will never be able to function in society again.

Yes, I feel the same. I worry things will never return to normal.

@DunnerRunner

It's very sad. Rather than sneer and jeer some empathy perhaps.

It.might be extreme to you and me but it is obviously the result of fear at the root cause. Imagine living that scared?? I doubt they've had a blast and are loving life.

It's a coping mechanism. An unhealthy one but bordering mental illness. Its not lockdown top trumps. A little kindness and thankfulness you've not been compelled to behave the same isn't much to ask.

Have you RTFT? I'm not 'sneering and jeering', I've repeatedly said that I'm concerned about the MH legacy of Covid on people who live like this and I've also said - many times - that I have been 'compelled to behave the same' and am on antidepressants for the first time in years because of it.

@Stuffin

Despite one posters attempts to get all of us to shut up I think it is worth discussing on here and I have had discussions in RL Maybe ignore any poster trying to get this thread pulled for their own personal reasons.

I have seen various responses with some saying they won't venture out until covid has gone and you still get some looking like you will murder them if you come within 2 meters.

The media and government have been drilling into people how dangerous it is for months while occasionally commenting that for most its asymptotic or a mild illness. Some people only hear the fact that if you get covid you will die. Everyday it is reported that a few people died with covid. Why is that news worthy when if you die of something else it is not. There is never any context with those numbers.

If you have never been out of your house and just listen to the briefings you might be getting a warped sense of what is happening.

Remember those awful adverts - 'If you go out, people will die'? It's not surprising at all that people were/are scared. They were one of the most dystopian things about this whole dystopian shitshow.

Have you RTFT? I'm not 'sneering and jeering'

It does feel like some posters really don’t distinguish between “this is bad for people” and “these people are bad for doing this.”

In terms of what would actually help though I really don’t know. The couple I know who were like this for a while would not have thanked anybody for popping round with some flowers or a thoughtful note or signposting them towards MH services, because they didn’t think there was anything wrong with them, they thought they were being sensible and were surrounded by reckless covid deniers who weren’t. They thought that keeping their children at home all the time was a sensible caring move to keep them safe, and the only people who wanted schools and restaurants and everything else reopened before covid had ‘gone’ were ignorant or were evil Tories who didn’t care.

Maybe it helped that they were still (virtually/online) in touch with a wider group of us who weren’t of the same view as them. So they got to see people they respected who they knew were overall intelligent and sensible talk about sending children back to school or even going out to play parks. I don’t know. But I don’t think sending round a box of Ferraro Rocher with a ‘sorry you’re struggling!’ note would have gone over very well.

There are obviously a range of views on this subject. Some people have expressed contempt for those leading what they consider to be small, unfulfilled lives. Some have expressed what appears to be genuine concern but have no solutions. Some have suggested taking an interest in these people and writing a note/sending a gift. Others feel that is inappropriate. Some have suggested obtaining mental health support. Others feel this is overstepping. Still others have suggested that the individuals in question might be perfectly happy.

Unless you really know the people you’re worrying aboard, it’s simply impossible to decide what they need, if indeed they need anything at all from you. The only thing I feel certain of is that performative concern, expressed via an anonymous (normally) forum isn’t going to help. It probably won’t hinder either, to be fair, and might bring relief from anxiety to those expressing their concerns, real or imagined, regarding the plight of people they don’t know.

There are posters on mumsnet that are doing exactly what is being discussed here and the more conversations that are had discussing the issue may help them see that they don’t have to live in fear.

So this thread will be helping some, even if they aren’t posting on it.

@GoldenOmber

Have you RTFT? I'm not 'sneering and jeering'

It does feel like some posters really don’t distinguish between “this is bad for people” and “these people are bad for doing this.”

In terms of what would actually help though I really don’t know. The couple I know who were like this for a while would not have thanked anybody for popping round with some flowers or a thoughtful note or signposting them towards MH services, because they didn’t think there was anything wrong with them, they thought they were being sensible and were surrounded by reckless covid deniers who weren’t. They thought that keeping their children at home all the time was a sensible caring move to keep them safe, and the only people who wanted schools and restaurants and everything else reopened before covid had ‘gone’ were ignorant or were evil Tories who didn’t care.

Maybe it helped that they were still (virtually/online) in touch with a wider group of us who weren’t of the same view as them. So they got to see people they respected who they knew were overall intelligent and sensible talk about sending children back to school or even going out to play parks. I don’t know. But I don’t think sending round a box of Ferraro Rocher with a ‘sorry you’re struggling!’ note would have gone over very well.

When I was at my most fearful a 'gift' of chocolates from someone I didn't know would've probably sent me into a chocolate-quarantining (or binning, frankly) panic! Also suggesting MH services to all but those closest to you is seriously overstepping. And anyway as I've found help is hard to get and it's only going to become more so. Whatever some people think, the fear that some are unable to shake plus the fallout from job loss, bereavement, relationship breakdown, those who have been living with DV in isolation, living with long covid etc as a result of the pandemic will result in a crisis that the NHS can't cope with.

Posters who work in relevant fields have already said there's a marked uptick in those needing support and I've seen this too where I volunteer. DH works with vulnerable people and he's seen evidence of it, too. As normal life resumes it's going to become even more of an issue.

@GoldenOmber

Have you RTFT? I'm not 'sneering and jeering'

It does feel like some posters really don’t distinguish between “this is bad for people” and “these people are bad for doing this.”

In terms of what would actually help though I really don’t know. The couple I know who were like this for a while would not have thanked anybody for popping round with some flowers or a thoughtful note or signposting them towards MH services, because they didn’t think there was anything wrong with them, they thought they were being sensible and were surrounded by reckless covid deniers who weren’t. They thought that keeping their children at home all the time was a sensible caring move to keep them safe, and the only people who wanted schools and restaurants and everything else reopened before covid had ‘gone’ were ignorant or were evil Tories who didn’t care.

Maybe it helped that they were still (virtually/online) in touch with a wider group of us who weren’t of the same view as them. So they got to see people they respected who they knew were overall intelligent and sensible talk about sending children back to school or even going out to play parks. I don’t know. But I don’t think sending round a box of Ferraro Rocher with a ‘sorry you’re struggling!’ note would have gone over very well.

Exactly. I think perhaps people feel frustration when around those who refuse to move forward, as it feels like a denial that life goes on. Some people are unable for whatever reason to move beyond the fear mentality, and that keeps others stuck. If we are feeling hopeful about restrictions lifting, we are pushed back by those who are still disinfecting everything and not leaving the house.

There is a child in my daughters class who hadn't been in school since this started!

I think this more of a weird perception than actual reality. My inlaws were saying it at the end of the last lockdown despite having been on holiday with us the summer before and various other outings.

On balance I’m glad that discussing other people’s problems in a general way (rather than focusing on a couple one doesn’t even know) is helping some people here to deal with their own anxiety around Covid. Unfortunately, it doesn’t always work that way. Many people feel more anxious if they continually focus on something that worries them and they begin to ruminate. Others will find it helpful to get to understand what they see as the facts around an issue. People deal with things in different ways but I’m not sure everyone realises that, because we seem programmed to project our own personalities onto others much of the time.

Sorry, I have no idea how to do quotes! Birdsandbees you say "Exactly. I think perhaps people feel frustration when around those who refuse to move forward, as it feels like a denial that life goes on. Some people are unable for whatever reason to move beyond the fear mentality, and that keeps others stuck. If we are feeling hopeful about restrictions lifting, we are pushed back by those who are still disinfecting everything and not leaving the house."

That's interesting. Why do you feel that some people become 'stuck' because of other people's behaviour? Why are they 'pushed back' by them? Are the people in question ones whom you actually know or ones that you've heard about from someone else?

I'd like to understand how the behaviour of others is impacting on you in this way, assuming that you are talking about your own feelings rather than the perceived feelings of others. Are you able to explain or is it just a gut feeling that makes you uneasy that things are not back to how you think they ought to be?

I think life is definitely 'going on' because we are all still here. The virus was a real threat and will still end the lives of some of us, but we are all here, on this forum, talking, just as we were pre pandemic. I welcome change, not admittedly the cause of the change in this particular case, but change is not something to be automatically feared because it is different to what we had before.

I think there will be, and we have seen this on MN as well, a bit of a push back now things are opening up and people are going out.

I think that is why you still get people saying it isn't safe and wanting others to still be afraid because then they will have to confront their own fear. If everyone has to stay at home then it is a confirmation that the world is still too scary to venture outside. But now people are booking holidays, going to events and even eating inside then their view will become the extreme.

@PrettyVacancy

Sorry, I have no idea how to do quotes! Birdsandbees you say "Exactly. I think perhaps people feel frustration when around those who refuse to move forward, as it feels like a denial that life goes on. Some people are unable for whatever reason to move beyond the fear mentality, and that keeps others stuck. If we are feeling hopeful about restrictions lifting, we are pushed back by those who are still disinfecting everything and not leaving the house."

That's interesting. Why do you feel that some people become 'stuck' because of other people's behaviour? Why are they 'pushed back' by them? Are the people in question ones whom you actually know or ones that you've heard about from someone else?

I'd like to understand how the behaviour of others is impacting on you in this way, assuming that you are talking about your own feelings rather than the perceived feelings of others. Are you able to explain or is it just a gut feeling that makes you uneasy that things are not back to how you think they ought to be?

I think life is definitely 'going on' because we are all still here. The virus was a real threat and will still end the lives of some of us, but we are all here, on this forum, talking, just as we were pre pandemic. I welcome change, not admittedly the cause of the change in this particular case, but change is not something to be automatically feared because it is different to what we had before.

I am talking about people I know personally, yes. I’m not sure why I respond like this. It’s a good question. I suppose I feel we have to be strong and resilient and show some determination to keep living. We aren’t being bombed or in the midst of the Black Death. People face much much worse things and survive. It just depresses me that some people are unable to risk assess for themselves. Instead they swallow this line we have been fed that we are all going to die and the world is unsafe. The world has always been unsafe. You have to face that and live. You could say I am being judgmental and superior, it’s not that. It’s just an exasperation about how easily people will give up their own autonomy and let the govt tell them what to do.

How do you know it’s affected their mental health? My DBro & his wife haven’t been anywhere. They both WFH and have very young kids. They assembled a big play area in the garden. My DBro goes the shop once a week for food and that’s it. Theu go for walks across the fields, play in the garden, go for a walk with the odd friend. They don’t go in anywhere. They’re happy out and once they’re both vaccinated and all restrictions are lifted they’re planning to go on holiday.

Alot of people don’t like going shopping or to the pub anyway so with extra covid risk why bother!

@ForeverAintEnough3

How do you know it’s affected their mental health? My DBro & his wife haven’t been anywhere. They both WFH and have very young kids. They assembled a big play area in the garden. My DBro goes the shop once a week for food and that’s it. Theu go for walks across the fields, play in the garden, go for a walk with the odd friend. They don’t go in anywhere. They’re happy out and once they’re both vaccinated and all restrictions are lifted they’re planning to go on holiday.

Alot of people don’t like going shopping or to the pub anyway so with extra covid risk why bother!

I'm talking about people who haven't left the house at all in a year and a half though, for of fear of catching covid. Not people who prefer the quieter life (I'm one of those!).

@ForeverAintEnough3 Have family seen the children?

they didn’t think there was anything wrong with them, they thought they were being sensible and were surrounded by reckless covid deniers who weren’t

The thing is that there are people who haven't been sensible, just as there are people who have been more cautious than they needed to and possible to a degree that's harmful. Both types of people exist, and a whole spectrum in between.

Everyone thinks they've personally got it about right and that people too far to one side or the other of them are either careless, or over-cautious (depending which side).

Anxiety in this context is something people are accused of, not something that people are empathised with over. It's a kind of gotcha - a synonym for 'stupid' or 'wrong', but with extra overtones of weakness and poor character. Crocodile tears, absolutely.

Everyone thinks they've personally got it about right and that people too far to one side or the other of them are either careless, or over-cautious (depending which side).

Yes. But some people are too careless or too cautious.

Planning to isolate your kids for 12 months plus, as that couple I’m talking about were saying they would do - literally not letting their school-age children leave the house/garden at all for over a year and possibly two - is not right.

Except some people in this thread are complaining that friends still want to meet outdoors rather than indoors. This thread is a lightning rod for people who just want to complain about other people being more cautious than them and put everything down to 'anxiety'. It's not just about the extremes (although the extremes are being laid out for entertainment value).

@tiltedtomatoes

Except some people in this thread are complaining that friends still want to meet outdoors rather than indoors. This thread is a lightning rod for people who just want to complain about other people being more cautious than them and put everything down to 'anxiety'. It's not just about the extremes (although the extremes are being laid out for entertainment value).

Being concerned about the mental health fallout of the pandemic isn't 'entertainment'.

There's a huge difference between being cautious and feeling unable to participate in life at all - never leaving the house, cutting yourself off from loved ones, taking DC out of school.