'We've not been out since all this started'

[TheVampiresWife]

I heard this yesterday from someone DH works with (they're all wfh). A couple in their late 40s, no health issues with no vulnerabilities, fully vaccinated but 'you can't be too careful'.

They've not left the house apart from their vaccine appointments since the start of the first lockdown.

I understand how worrying it's all been for some people, particularly if you're vulnerable or have health anxiety. But it's so sad that people are this terrified. I wonder how they'll cope when restrictions end. The MH fallout from all this is going to be massive, isn't it?

Crazy, we couldn't wait to get out, eating takeaways on the beach etc last May. I'm the same age group.

@DeathByWalkies

That may have been an age related deterioration. Very often people are fit and healthy until suddenly they are not, and I don't think you go into a nursing home for agoraphobia all on its own.

IME it's very important for elderly people to "keep going", and when they stop it can often trigger a sudden downward spiral in their physical and cognitive capabilities.

Going from an active life with the WI / supermarket trips / friends / volunteering at the charity shop / cruises and so on, to just trying to look after yourself and home, is often exactly the sort of thing that triggers a downward spiral.

Now, that's not to say that it couldn't have been a coincidence - it's just that it could very well have been caused by lockdown too.

This is exactly right. I know anecdotally from talking to friends about their parents and from some professional contacts in the occupational therapy and social work fields that this has been and will continue to be a significant problem. My mother who is a very sprightly 77 has a saying that 'if I could do it yesterday, I can do it today'. Continuing good health, flexibility, mobility etc are - absent chronic disease or a medical event - so dependent on keeping going in every sense, physically, socially, mentally. Older people in particular can't afford to stop doing the hundreds of little things that keep the body, mind and spirit running, the alternative is not necessarily stasis but decline.

@Changechangychange

I've no idea how they manage for exercise/fresh air - they live in a flat with no outside space

That’s crazy. I hope they are taking vitamin D supplements!

I expected you to say they lived in a house with a big garden, or had home gym equipment - the people I know who haven’t left the house all have plenty of outside space within their property boundary, and were frankly pretty sedentary homebodies to start with (lots of hobbies that can be done solo at home, like knitting or painting).

I am shocked that people have been confining themselves to small flats for 18 months if not CEV.

Your main paragraph describes me to a T .

While DH has been doing a mixture of WFH & commuting to the office, I've stayed home & am lucky enough to be in the position you describe - in fact I've used this time to buy in more supplies & pursue my hobbies with a vengeance. (Though not going to the garden centre is really cramping my style.)

I take the car out once a week on some nice country roads, just to keep it going, but other than that & occasional trips to the petrol station or pharmacy, I haven't been anywhere since lockdown started. Oh, except for having to have a life-saving operation but hey.

That really did bring home to me that Covid is a genuine threat. Maybe none of you have been in that situation, but I can tell you that hospitals don't take it lightly. The restrictions on patients & staff are incredible, in order to keep everyone safe, & if doctors think it's necessary, then I believe them. I've just had a letter for a follow-up appointment & those restrictions are still in place.

I can't wait for this all to be over. Some days it still feels unreal. But we all have to deal with it in our own way. I do take the point about outsourcing the risk & that occurred to me very early on, but I'm in some higher-risk categories so I'm doing what I can for myself, selfish as that may sound.

@DeathByWalkies

That may have been an age related deterioration. Very often people are fit and healthy until suddenly they are not, and I don't think you go into a nursing home for agoraphobia all on its own.

IME it's very important for elderly people to "keep going", and when they stop it can often trigger a sudden downward spiral in their physical and cognitive capabilities.

Going from an active life with the WI / supermarket trips / friends / volunteering at the charity shop / cruises and so on, to just trying to look after yourself and home, is often exactly the sort of thing that triggers a downward spiral.

Now, that's not to say that it couldn't have been a coincidence - it's just that it could very well have been caused by lockdown too.

and IME, (professional) there gets to be a point where they can't and then the gradual unnoticed deterioration becomes evident. The downward spiral isn't triggered by the failure to keep going (although to the outsider it may look that way) what has actually happened is that the keeping going foundation has become more and more unstable until one day the whole thing collapses. Relatives say something like "but only last week/month he/she was doing xxx/going to yyy" and so on. I don't think that covid has done any of us any favours, all I am saying is that its quite possible that this particular lady (and others like her) may not have been victims of lockdown.

What annoys me, is that these people are more than happy for other people to put themselves at risk for them to stay safe. It's really entitled behaviour.

I'm not talking about people who are CEV or anything, but people who are perfectly fit and healthy and who are choosing to shut themselves off from the world - something that's only possible if other poorer people put their own health at risk to provide them with internet, electricity, food and everything else necessary for them to just hide in their bubbles.

Why does it matter to you what other people do?

I actually don't care. Stay inside and waste your life. No skin off my nose. Just don't expect other people to live tiny miserable lives for one second longer than the "rules" dictate.

@GreenClock

I think that there is a small cohort that quite likes the quieter life and the absence of expectation to socialise. Which is their choice and perfectly fine unless there are children being affected.

Yes, this is what I've come across rather than people being afraid. It's just an excuse not to go out. Also, some of the people who won't go to the pub now have been able to go out for work whereas I've been forced to stay at home so they haven't been as deprived of social contact as some of us have been.

"even if they couldn't leave their local area and had to spend their annual leave at home. That is still annual leave and not working."

If you could sit and watch TV, but had to stay at the office for your annual leave, would you consider that a holiday? People who are forced to work at home and then spend their time off at home are actually 'on holiday' in their workplace. Bit crap!

@NothingIsWrong

People have got used to outsourcing their risk to those generally worse off than them. Those who can't afford to turn down crap pay and conditions to deliver stuff to the well off. It doesn't sit well with me at all, that attitude.

Yes, this, completely.

@IrmaFayLear

I think some people’s risk assessments vary according to their preferences. So going to the supermarket is fine, but going to work very risky. Mixing with family members has happened all along, but a pub lunch equals certain death.

Anyway, if people want to shut themselves away, that’s their business. But I wish their social media would be blocked so they can’t harangue others.

Oh I had one like that on my FB I had to block. Claimed to only leave the house for essential grocery shopping but did car boot sales every weekend and was also seen in others photos and videos at a couple of garden parties

When questioned her response was - I always socially distance

Ok, no one is actually concerned about her doing boot sales and socialising but don't play the 'poor me I never leave the house' card when its blatantly untrue and there's social media evidence

But also, those who are extremely clinically vulnerable absolutely should be looking after themselves and getting deliveries - but that's not everyone who is doing this, by any means.

I agree that lockdowns and the pandemic have been terrible for mental health. I was previously mentally fairly resilient, and my MH divebombed a few times over the last 18 months. I'm also a person who has been out very little and is still more cautious than most even after double vaccination. I live in a household of 4 CV/CEV adults and one home-schooled child though! I was self-appointed designated person for going out on essential trips (because I didn't trust other members of the family who were laze faire to keep themselves safe). I have a dog so have been going for walks throughout, and some of my household come with me some of the time. Being unsure about how far I could go out when derbyshire police were arresting people for going 5 miles meant that I felt unable to visit local nature spots and has to stick to town walks, which has a surprisingly strong impact on my MH. It was all so bloody stupid, because I could get much further away from other people in the nature spots than I could on town walks.

Before being double vaccinated I only met up with two friends, once, outside with masks on. I have developed a busy social life on the computer and I'm unwilling to give that up anytime soon.

Since being double vaccinated I've gone back into the office (their choice not mine), been out for one pub meal and am now finally happy to pop into shops etc. I still will avoid crowded places, even outside. I'm seeing a group of friends outside next week.

I think I'm an example of somebody who was a good mixture of all the things that made people take it to the extremes. a) am CV and shielding others in household who are CEV, b) I found that I enjoyed the quieter life and didn't miss seeing even close friends in person, and c) my mental health suffered which caused me to be one of the ultra paranoid people - I think the highlight of how ridiculous I got was wearing masks for dog walks in very open areas, just in case I met somebody, and turning around to avoid a lone man on a walk whose breath I could see condensing in the air, and more or less having a panic attack about it.

At my most cautious I was avoiding taking the car out as much as possible to avoid needing to buy petrol, wearing gloves when I had to go out and touch things, washing groceries and pretty much barricading my gate, with huge signs too so that delivery people wouldn't let themselves through the gate and up to my door so that I could control the distance the interaction happened at (didn't work!).

When you believe that the virus has a strong likelihood of killing you or one of your family members if you bring it home, it doesn't sound insane to wash groceries and not go out.

You're welcome to AMA.

I know people like this, but they have high risk family & friends & do it for them, maybe there is more to it that you are not party too OP & are judging unfairly

I think it's interesting that certain lifestyle choices are being presented as the only 'healthy' ones. Prior to Covid there were lots of people who didn't socialise, used online deliveries and worked from home. In fact, from a 'green' and environmental pov, those type of lifestyles (depending on shopping choices) scored highly on environmentally-responsible checkcards.
It's only since Covid, that it's become acceptable to point at those lifestyles as though they're somehow reduced or indicative of MH issues.
People also like to speak in broad brush strokes. I'm sure some of our distant acquaintances might think we have stayed at home for the entire lockdown - simply because we haven't went for meals or socialised with them. But we don't give a running commentary on where we have been and what we've done or on our health conditions. Again, it's only since Covid that relative strangers (as you are to these people OP) would think they knew everything about your lifestyle and were somehow equipped enough to pinpoint an impending MH crisis. I don't think that preoccupation with pathologising others is healthy or helpful.

@unwuthering

Being concerned that the NHS isn't going to be able to cope with thousands of people suffering from what is essentially a form of PTSD/agoraphobia isn't pathologizing others' life choices.

Interesting to see so many who pooh-pooh the validity of a diagnosis of long covid and the ramifications for healthcare after this pandemic being so dreadfully concerned for fictitious diagnoses of psychiatric disorders in those who make different life choices, being constituted diffferently from the average extroverted dying to go to the pub/ softplay/ group hug / whatever / chomping at the bit to throw off the 'face nappies' sort.

So agree with this

I don’t understand people saying they “don’t get it” with regard to this issue. The government have bombarded us day in day out for almost a year and a half about how we could die if we stepped outside, didn’t distance, didn’t wash our hands etc etc. Now it’s the bloody “roll up your sleeves to save lives” adverts on the telly and radio every 2 seconds BUT you still have to socially distance, wear a mask, wash your hands blah blah blah because you can still catch this bloody virus even after you’ve been vaccinated.

There was never any doubt that certain people were going to be totally and utterly destroyed mentally and emotionally by the constant propaganda.

Same as when the Daily Mail or Channel 5 run constant “benefit cheat” stories, certain cohorts of people will become convinced of the claims made. Or how Boris is doing a good job. Most people able to think for themselves know that is absolute bullshit but there will always be people who believe what they are told, no questions asked.

It’s really not rocket science to be able to understand the “pandemic” and the constant media stories only focusing on the one issue for the last 18 months was going to have some people living in an alternate reality where nothing matters except Covid 😑

@SingingInTheShithouse

I know people like this, but they have high risk family & friends & do it for them, maybe there is more to it that you are not party too OP & are judging unfairly

At no point have I judged anyone.

I know someone that's been like this all their life, avoid going out at all costs. Purely because they basically don't like people or having to deal with people. This person has loved the pandemic as they haven't had to make excuses for not going out. They have always WFH and do all shopping online.

For some it won be the fear of a virus, it will purely be because the prefer their ow home and their own comforts

@cupsofcoffee

What annoys me, is that these people are more than happy for other people to put themselves at risk for them to stay safe. It's really entitled behaviour.

I'm not talking about people who are CEV or anything, but people who are perfectly fit and healthy and who are choosing to shut themselves off from the world - something that's only possible if other poorer people put their own health at risk to provide them with internet, electricity, food and everything else necessary for them to just hide in their bubbles.

I am retired. I had my groceries delivered long before lockdown and I must be one of Amazon's best customers. I was never keen on pubs restaurants and so on. How will my going out change ANYTHING?

@TheGlassBlowersDaughter

I think it's interesting that certain lifestyle choices are being presented as the only 'healthy' ones. Prior to Covid there were lots of people who didn't socialise, used online deliveries and worked from home. In fact, from a 'green' and environmental pov, those type of lifestyles (depending on shopping choices) scored highly on environmentally-responsible checkcards. It's only since Covid, that it's become acceptable to point at those lifestyles as though they're somehow reduced or indicative of MH issues. People also like to speak in broad brush strokes. I'm sure some of our distant acquaintances might think we have stayed at home for the entire lockdown - simply because we haven't went for meals or socialised with them. But we don't give a running commentary on where we have been and what we've done or on our health conditions. Again, it's only since Covid that relative strangers (as you are to these people OP) would think they knew everything about your lifestyle and were somehow equipped enough to pinpoint an impending MH crisis. I don't think that preoccupation with pathologising others is healthy or helpful.

oh well said and very true

@TheGlassBlowersDaughter

I think it's interesting that certain lifestyle choices are being presented as the only 'healthy' ones. Prior to Covid there were lots of people who didn't socialise, used online deliveries and worked from home. In fact, from a 'green' and environmental pov, those type of lifestyles (depending on shopping choices) scored highly on environmentally-responsible checkcards. It's only since Covid, that it's become acceptable to point at those lifestyles as though they're somehow reduced or indicative of MH issues. People also like to speak in broad brush strokes. I'm sure some of our distant acquaintances might think we have stayed at home for the entire lockdown - simply because we haven't went for meals or socialised with them. But we don't give a running commentary on where we have been and what we've done or on our health conditions. Again, it's only since Covid that relative strangers (as you are to these people OP) would think they knew everything about your lifestyle and were somehow equipped enough to pinpoint an impending MH crisis. I don't think that preoccupation with pathologising others is healthy or helpful.

This isn't about people who don't socialise and have their groceries delivered, though (I'm one of those people!). It's more to so with those whose MH has nosedived during the pandemic and are too worried to leave the house for anything, even if pre-pandemic they loved to meet friends/go shopping/cinema visits or whatever.

Lots of people I know (myself included) have had to seek help for MH crises in the past year and a half. I'm far from the only person who's concerned about a wider mental health crisis.

@TheGlassBlowersDaughter

I think it's interesting that certain lifestyle choices are being presented as the only 'healthy' ones. Prior to Covid there were lots of people who didn't socialise, used online deliveries and worked from home. In fact, from a 'green' and environmental pov, those type of lifestyles (depending on shopping choices) scored highly on environmentally-responsible checkcards. It's only since Covid, that it's become acceptable to point at those lifestyles as though they're somehow reduced or indicative of MH issues. People also like to speak in broad brush strokes. I'm sure some of our distant acquaintances might think we have stayed at home for the entire lockdown - simply because we haven't went for meals or socialised with them. But we don't give a running commentary on where we have been and what we've done or on our health conditions. Again, it's only since Covid that relative strangers (as you are to these people OP) would think they knew everything about your lifestyle and were somehow equipped enough to pinpoint an impending MH crisis. I don't think that preoccupation with pathologising others is healthy or helpful.

To be fair, in pre-covid times I wouldn't have considered it healthy to not leave your house either (assuming no mobility of serious health issues). No judgment in relation to those who, as my parents would say, "keep themselves to themselves"; many people prefer their own company etc. However, it would be the lack of exercise, fresh air and some form of small interaction that concerns me, even if that is just saying hi to the guy in the newsagent twice a week. I'm not suggesting they should be swinging from the chandeliers.

What I wasn’t prepared for was the feeling of panic that set in as I went about doing what need to be done, side stepping people, I wore a mask (and a visor in the shops). I only went in places I felt looked empty enough for me to feel comfortable but I wasn’t one bit in any of them

I felt like this the first few times I went out - it really surprised me as I truly wasn't expecting it. It wasn't fear of covid I don't think, but just the strangeness of being out and about after so long. It soon wears off, or it did for me.

I have friends who are still shielding for no good reason after the lock downs but hopefully they are venturing out now. I don't know as I've given up on them a bit. Will contact in another year.

I am retired. I had my groceries delivered long before lockdown and I must be one of Amazon's best customers. I was never keen on pubs restaurants and so on. How will my going out change ANYTHING?

I mean, I shop online as well and get my groceries delivered - I'm not at all saying those things are inherently bad by any means.

But it's the attitude that bothers me. These people insist it's dangerous to go out, but somehow think it's okay for other people to put themselves in danger in order for them to stay safe.

Getting shopping delivered because you don't drive and can't get to the supermarket is very different from getting shopping delivered because you somehow consider yourself too important to risk going to Tesco.