Finally there’s some sensible news re school isolations

[solarlights]

Refreshing to see a headteacher and doctor on bbc breakfast saying we need to only isolate the dc with covid. Feeling encouraged.

Why not just let kids get it? Done. Jobs a good un. It will then stop spreading by winter

@HiHoSylvie

I think isolating classes (not year groups) where there is a CEV child makes sense at the minute. But that cannot continue forever obviously. I don't think anyone would think it could. I don't think every parent would consent to their 4yo being swabbed every day even if the government would fork out for it. If there was a known CEV child in the class, you'd like to think they would, but if I had, for example a child with ASD who had serious sensory issues and there was also a CEV child in the class, is it acceptable to then make my (hypothetical) child go through daily trauma any more than it is acceptable to expect a CEV child to go to school with untested, unvaccinated children in it?

There is exemptions for everything and a child with ASD who genuinely couldn't cope with daily testing should be exempt. In a class of 30 If you had 2 CEV children (which in my own DC class there is actually 3 which is probably very against the odds in general population) and say 5 who genuinely couldn't do the test (not just because their parents don't fancy it) you would still have 25 getting the test which should give a good indication of what is happening in the classroom and offer protection to the CEV. By not doing that you are again subjecting the CEV to the trauma that comes with a hospital admission.

I really hope this will be the case. We are on day 7 of my dd isolating. She’s totally fine. Currently terrorising the dog & refusing to homeschool! I can’t work as I’m a childminder so it’s impacting other families & ive lost my weeks earnings. It’s frustrating. I understand why we had to do this earlier in the pandemic but we need to get back to normal now.

By not doing that you are again subjecting the CEV to the trauma that comes with a hospital admission

Well no, it isn't guaranteed that someone in the class will ever have covid. And it isn't guaranteed that they will pass it to your child. It isn't then guaranteed that even a CEV child will require mor hospital treatment as a result of catching covid than they are already having, (depending on how doctors approach a covid diagnosis obviously, and that will vary from child to child).

Daily testing is guaranteed trauma for some children. Glad to see you think those children should be exempted, but you don't get to decide that 25 children will be fine. You have no idea. Nobody would want to force your child into hospital, but that doesn't mean you get to force other children into treatment because you think "just because their parents didn't fancy it".

More on GMTV this morning about the closing of whole yeargroups for isolated cases and also about the y10 and y12 exams (announcement today from GW apparently).

Regarding CV and CEV pupils - they should be vaccinated as soon as possible. Pfizer is already approved for over 12s so MHRA have assessed it as safe and effective with a sound risk/benefit ratio for this age group.
Optional vaccination of this age group needs to be started now, like has been ongoing in the US for some time.

I agree vaccination (targeted and/or optional) is a better solution than repeated isolation, the latter works better for reducing mass community spread rather than reducing individual risk on targeted basis

It’s funny how children get blamed for passing it on to CEV children if they don’t test, it could be adults, how would you know who’s tested and who hasn’t? How do you know who’s been vaccinated and who hasn’t? How would you know who had given that child Covid? I don’t think you can put all that responsibility on children.

It's actually unbelievable that CEV children who are so at risk from covid that they have sometimes missed and entire year of school during this, were not included in the initial vaccinations for the most vulnerable groups. Again, children at the bottom of the pile. Makes me

CEV children who are able and willing to have it of course.

I’m sure I read in that BBC article that on the whole, rates in school reflect rates in the community.
So it’s not the schools that are the hot bed of infection. Could be adults bringing it in.

Has there been any research (I’m sure there has??) about how asymptomatic children spread Covid? Is it less than adults? May
be not but it would be good to know.
They’re definitely not the super spreaders they are with flu (and hence why they’re vaccinated).

@Cookiecrisps

I also think it’s grossly unfair for school staff and CEV children if the rest of society keeps isolation of close contacts but it is abandoned in schools to keep attendance up. I do think this is the way it will go just like social distancing and masks - required everywhere else except schools unless the school goes out on a limb and overrides the DfE guidance.

Heaven forbid schools should be prioritised...

School staff and children are in massive bubbles so have a massively higher likelihood of isolation than the majority of the population who only need to isolate if their family bubble shows symptoms.

How about thinking of the impact of this on families?

It's going to spread through schools like wildfire in September then. Let's just hope the variants brought back from everyone's foreign holidays don't escape the vaccines.

@HiHoSylvie

By not doing that you are again subjecting the CEV to the trauma that comes with a hospital admission

Well no, it isn't guaranteed that someone in the class will ever have covid. And it isn't guaranteed that they will pass it to your child. It isn't then guaranteed that even a CEV child will require mor hospital treatment as a result of catching covid than they are already having, (depending on how doctors approach a covid diagnosis obviously, and that will vary from child to child).

Daily testing is guaranteed trauma for some children. Glad to see you think those children should be exempted, but you don't get to decide that 25 children will be fine. You have no idea. Nobody would want to force your child into hospital, but that doesn't mean you get to force other children into treatment because you think "just because their parents didn't fancy it".

This daily testing for close contacts would only be as a result of a positive within the class however, instead of the need to self isolate, not daily testing for every child in schools. So therefore the guarantee at that stage IS that someone in the class does indeed have covid. So at that stage the spread needs to be contained either via isolation or daily testing to protect the CEV child.
Parents could maybe be offered the choice of 10 days isolation or daily testing?

Bit different to say 'nobody would force your child into hospital' ....when they can't breathe it really isn't a choice and I'm pretty sure it would be negligent for me not to obtain the neccessary medical interventions they require and believe me my 4yo hates having to go to the hospital and probably does feel 'forced'.

A teacher managed to take out our entire year group because bizarrely it is not OK for the kids to be outwith their bubbles but it is fine for teachers to move between classes. None of it makes sense to me and the sooner Covid is treated like any other infectious illness the better

Yes, I agree that testing instead of isolating would work. I've already said exactly that earlier.

But re "telling parents it's testing everyday of ten days isolating?" makes no difference if a small child is so scared of testing that it would be a trauma for them to go through it.

And I assume you aren't being deliberately obtuse, so I'll clarify; by force a CEV child into hospital, I meant by infecting them with covid and that then resulting in a hospital stay.

In our schools case the covid infections spread from a adult to teacher but not between children

I am sure parents of CEV children can understand why not sending children to school is undesirable without getting snarky and laying down the law; "if parents don't fancy that, we tell them daily testing or ten days off then?".

Another parent of a CEV child on here has already said how some of her friend have had to "resort to" homeschooling, but that "isn't an option" for her. So yes, I'm sure you understand that homeschooling is not a good choice for many parents.

And in our school we have had only one occasion where the bubble has isolated and it's resulted in more than one infection with covid. Every other time, one child has had it and it has never been passed on afaik (although it may be assymptomatic which is why I support testing to get out of isolation and said so earlier).

That's out of five ten day isolation periods (one for one of my dcs and four for the other).

That's 90 children per bubble.

@HiHoSylvie

I am sure parents of CEV children can understand why not sending children to school is undesirable without getting snarky and laying down the law; "if parents don't fancy that, we tell them daily testing or ten days off then?".

Another parent of a CEV child on here has already said how some of her friend have had to "resort to" homeschooling, but that "isn't an option" for her. So yes, I'm sure you understand that homeschooling is not a good choice for many parents.

Homeschooling isn't a good choice for me as a parent and far less is it ideal for my children however from the first week in March 2020 right up until the end of April 2021 that was the reality and will continue to be so provided covid is allowed to spread unchecked around schools.

So why is it only something that should be undertaken by CEV children (and in many cases their perfectly healthy siblings) and also on a longerterm basis than the 10 days isolation?

It isn't only undertaken by CEV children and their parents. Schools have been closed for a huge chunk of my year 1 DC's primary education. I understand your irritation, but it seems as if you are focussed on the wrong target.

Children are all entitled to an education. There are better ways of achieving this than isolating. You can make your decisions about how it should be on here, as you have been, but you need the people in charge to listen to your. Arguing with parents of children who aren't vulnerable is unfair. All children are entitled to their education. If yours isn't able to access it, that's terrible. Neither has mine been. Also terrible.

I do agree with you that the bubbles are far too big though and that is something that needs changing. It does need to be only impacting on close contacts and in older children that will be easier to determine but unfortunately in younger children is is likely to involve the whole class however I don't see any need for entire year groups to be impacted because the risk of spread amongst the entire year group is probably very minimal.

We have had no bubble closures in our Primary since schools returned in April thankfully. However in the run up to Christmas it really was a nightmare with multiple cases popping up in classes indicating that it was spreading. As a result of that the school have had multiple staff members off since then with long covid and has lead to staffing issues and disruption including to the children. My eldest DC teacher was one of these and as a result they haven't had a consistent teacher in place now since the return of schools.

I think going forward that we need to adapt and not keep isolating kids. This looks like it's not going anywhere so we need to start treating it like flu.

Don't forget schools are just following gov advice /rules. If they rules need to chang, that has to come from the government. It about accepting that covid is now a part of life and we need to try and live with it.

Schools are only trying to stop an outbreak in schools. Yes some of your are saying fed up of isolating....but how would you feel if your child /ren caught it because school hadn't sent kids home that should have isolated?

We have had no bubble closures in our Primary since schools returned in April thankfully

Well then it's easy for you to say "keep isolating your child isn't missing out like mine is". Not true. Mine has missed a huge chunk of her education to date. People like bojo have no idea how crucial it is for children to be educated as he basically had his success guaranteed due to the family he was born into. It's terrible for young people now. It will get worse as the economy is fucked now. My children's children will be paying for lockdown one.