All this has to stop. We can’t live like this!

[SweetsMum3]

We need to learn to live with covid like we do with all other viruses, illnesses and diseases. The elderly and high risk are vaccinated… that was the goal, remember?! Like Hancock said, we will cry freedom when the over 70s are vaccinated!

There is no reason for mass testing when the young and healthy get covid mildly. My child is in tears yet again because she isn’t allowed to go to school for 10 days. A few students in her year group tested positive and all students are forced to be locked in their homes… again.

Are the sick?! No. Half have no symptoms. The others have a slight fever and feel a little tired.

This isn’t fair. This isn’t healthy. This isn’t sane. This is harmful and destructive to children. An entire generation has been betrayed. For what exactly? Over a virus which does not affect them. Over fear. Over people being immensely risk-averse. Over loss of control and people can’t take it.

It is time we live our lives and get back to normal before it’s too late. If our children hold us accountable and never forgive us, I will completely understand. We have not stood-up for them. Instead, we cowered in fear not giving a hoot about the collateral damage all these restrictions have caused. Shame on us.

@TableFlowerss

Where does it end though?

This is a genuine question. Why would there be a need for a Christmas lockdown when all adults will have vaccinated then?

If there would still be a lockdown despite all adults being vaccinated then what is left? What more can be done?

This is my thinking. If offering a double jab to the entire adult population is not enough, then what would be? What more is there?

I imagine that a few in gov and on here are in pursuit of zero Covid, so maybe that would be their answer to the above question. Eradicate Covid, regardless of every other human/social/economic cost. But maybe not... Are there other answers to the above questions?

@lightand

People are accountable for their words, and rightly so.

Some people are easily impressionable, and giving bad or wrong advice to others, is not on.

Lives and jobs etc at stake, as regards covid.
Everyone should be jolly careful what they post and say, especially about covid.

I suspect there is more trouble coming in the next few months at least. And not just about covid.
So people need to be careful what "advice" they take off social media. From people we all do not know.

I havent been here that long, but already I can see a handful of posters[not meaning @Cornettoninja yet as I havent read much of what she has posted] that I wouldnt buy a bag of sweets from.

Probably why it's best to heed the advice of the experts - the scientists, the doctors - over someone having a tantrum on MN. The majority of respected experts, I mean. Not the discredited lone wolfs.

I'm hungry though and fancy a treat. I'm up for a bag of sweets AND a cornetto. (I'll compensate by going for a long walk for exercise later).

There is that word again.............tantrum. Apparently pointing out that those who said "suck it up its just this once" "you are so selfish" is having a tantrum.

Well last time i went abroad was 1986. My life is caring for my DH, seeing my elderly parents shopping (grocery mainly) the hairdressers and wanting to see my DB at Christmas. I dont go abroad dont go to gigs or festivals (have actually never been to either) dont go to pubs or restaurants (but can see they need to trade or ppl lose their jobs) i never go to mass gatherings but yeah im selfish and having a tantrum.

Incidentally my elderly DM has been in and out of hospital since last October. Tested negative every time.

These shrill voices shrieking about selfishness and tantrums are mercifully getting fewer and further between. It seems to be mainly the hardcore few now, those whose usernames your clock and then roll your eyes. Quite how they will fill their days in the future I don't know.

Totally agree with you. It's getting more and more outrageous with prolonging the day of freedom and now saying we'll probably be locked down again in the autumn. Ffs. Life is too short and we need to learn to live with it.

I agree OP. It’s utter madness.

@TooManyPlatesInMotion I think this may go some way to explaining it.

Ol’ Grandpa Dinners
@tomusher
·
7h
Feels like the idea that we’re just going to be in and out of lockdowns for the foreseeable to “prevent hospitals being overwhelmed” is probably going to lead to a deep resentment towards the NHS that the tories will exploit to espouse the benefits of private healthcare

twitter.com/tom_usher_/status/1406929021158494208?s=20

[quote SweetsMum3]@HSHorror

Unmasked kids? As masks do anything at all to stop the spread of an aerosolized virus.

We have herd immunity. Those who have had covid + those adults who have been vaccinated. The only thing that matters is that the elderly and high risk are vaccinated. The goal was to stop severe symptoms not eradicate covid because it’s impossible!

We can now live our lives fully and yes, socialize![/quote]
🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻

There's another word thrown around a lot. 'Hysteria'. It's often aimed at a group so well known for putting emotion before stone cold facts... Scientists. Oh yes. All those 'hysterical' scientists and medical experts.

It's very very simple. Some countries got it straight away, others are beginning to get it.

This only goes away if and when we tackle it. Properly. That obviously means no exemptions for VIPs. Covid doesn't distinguish between types of person. It's happy to spread whoever it is.

Again. 80, preferably 90% of the population vaccinated and then the virus has very few places to go or mutate.

And yes we do need the rest of the world vaccinated. Morally, but also because we're only safe when everywhere is.

We're getting there. It's not all doom and gloom. Our vaccine rollout is doing well. But we're not there yet and it would be spectacularly stupid to throw all the hard work and effort away at this stage.

So - temporarily - we need some measures. Including masks and border control (no more Delta strain type imports - or exports).

And Biden and Macron are right. A temporary vaccine patent waiver would significantly speed things up, in getting the whole world vaccinated.

@TheKeatingFive

Is this the way we are doing public health now? Locking down every winter.

Well no consent from me for this.

If the issue is health service capacity then deal with that.

Locking everyone down is a crazy solution.

This with (christmas) bells on!

All that money that was found for a crappy t&t system could have been much better employed!

And yes we do need the rest of the world vaccinated. Morally, but also because we're only safe when everywhere is

tealights I do agree we should be trying to get the world vaccinated but they’re talking about needing boosters here. Is it feasible we will ever be able to get the world vaccinated and adequately boosted? Isn’t it possible that by the time we get to the last of the world to vaccinate, the ones vaccinated first won’t still be protected?

I always wonder this so am grateful for your thoughts as I’m hopefully missing something!

@mercyBooth yes, interesting point.

@SlipperyDippery

And yes we do need the rest of the world vaccinated. Morally, but also because we're only safe when everywhere is

tealights I do agree we should be trying to get the world vaccinated but they’re talking about needing boosters here. Is it feasible we will ever be able to get the world vaccinated and adequately boosted? Isn’t it possible that by the time we get to the last of the world to vaccinate, the ones vaccinated first won’t still be protected?

I always wonder this so am grateful for your thoughts as I’m hopefully missing something!

Obviously it's just my personal view but I'm with Biden and Macron. Temporary vaccine patent waiver. India and South Africa and others have been pleading for this for months. It would really help speed things up.

Is it feasible we will ever be able to get the world vaccinated and adequately boosted?

No.

@GoldenOmber

Is it feasible we will ever be able to get the world vaccinated and adequately boosted?

No.

I was wondering this

People say we need to vaccinate everyone in the world as if it’s done, but it’s not finished after one round

People say we need to vaccinate everyone in the world as if it’s done, but it’s not finished after one round

Well it is, if the majority (80-90%) are vaccinated. Then there's nowhere for the virus to go, nowhere to spread or mutate. The small number of breakthrough cases, being few, would be easily managed, treated, and contained.

We might need boosters this winter, particularly for the vulnerable, but we may not. Some research suggests immunity will be longer lasting than first thought. At this stage it's uncertain.

We haven’t been able to vaccinate everyone in the world to those levels against anything, ever. Even smallpox eradication wasn’t done that way (they did ring vaccination where you vaccinate all contacts/their contacts) and it was still a very difficult, lengthy process.

And even if we could, lower income countries have really limited health budgets. Once covid is not overwhelming their health systems, why would we expect them to pour all their resources into vaccinating all their 16-year-olds every year when they’re trying to deal with malaria and diphtheria and HIV and measles? Because someone somewhere on the other side of the world is a bit jumpy about long covid?

@GoldenOmber

We haven’t been able to vaccinate everyone in the world to those levels against anything, ever. Even smallpox eradication wasn’t done that way (they did ring vaccination where you vaccinate all contacts/their contacts) and it was still a very difficult, lengthy process.

And even if we could, lower income countries have really limited health budgets. Once covid is not overwhelming their health systems, why would we expect them to pour all their resources into vaccinating all their 16-year-olds every year when they’re trying to deal with malaria and diphtheria and HIV and measles? Because someone somewhere on the other side of the world is a bit jumpy about long covid?

Good points

@GoldenOmber

That's an incredibly patronising and really quite offensive view of other countries.

Actually funnily enough they don't want the continued risk of Covid. In no small part because it's the last thing they need, to deal with on top of the issues they already have to battle, including malaria. Like you say there isn't the resources...to deal with Covid as well.

Many low and middle income countries have been pleading for a temporary vaccine patent waiver. Because they want and need to get their populations vaccinated.

Again. It won't be every year forever. Not if the majority get vaccinated. Then the virus has nowhere, or just extremely limited, chances to spread (and small numbers of cases are quickly and easily managed, treated, and contained).

Good God!

Many low and middle income countries have been pleading for a temporary vaccine patent waiver. Because they want and need to get their populations vaccinated.

Yes! They do! Just like they need to get their populations vaccinated against measles, diphtheria, TB, a load of other nasties. But it is very very difficult to do this, which is why they have loads of vulnerable people suffering and dying from those diseases every single year. Once they’ve vaccinated the vulnerable, why would you expect them to divert resources from things which are still a very immediate threat, to covid which no longer is?

Again. It won't be every year forever. Not if the majority get vaccinated. Then the virus has nowhere, or just extremely limited, chances to spread

There are over 100 million babies born every single year..

Totally agree with everything you’ve said OP.

Also, is it really true that Boris has warned of a rough winter ahead? I saw a headline about some such in the Daily Mail but am hoping it’s just the usual DM rubbish. I mean, how can we be in for a rough winter when everyone will have been double vaccinated?!!

Agree that the idea of a healthcare system which requires everyone to sit at home "protecting it" (and getting progressively less healthy as they do so) is bizarre. I certainly feel resentful about myself and my family ending up less healthy and worse off in every way for "protecting the NHS" when it has done nothing for any of us in the last year - though have nothing against the staff.

I am concerned that lockdowns have become normalised as a way to reduce pressure on the NHS. Healthcare systems will always, almost by definition, be at capacity and healthcare will always be rationed because you could throw unlimited resources at a healthcare system and it could still not be doing everything possible for everyone. Lockdowns can't be a permanent solution to that. We seem to have put having spare NHS capacity to treat emergencies as the absolute priority for society and the view seems to be that anything, however damaging, is justified to achieve that. Running out of emergency healthcare capacity would be very bad but I actually think that what we have done to prevent this is worse, particularly as it has partially been achieved by taking the NHS capacity to deal with chronic illness and shifting it to the acute, which probably hasn't saved lives overall.

And I still think it is completely unethical to damage the health, education and future prospects of a large number of people, particularly children, to protect a minority. We would never (I hope though who knows anymore) subject children to a medical procedure like kidney donation in order to benefit someone else's health so why is it ok to lock up children, increasing their risk of obesity and all the issues that causes (e.g. diabetes) and mental health problems plus exposing them to the effects of reduction in education, an increase in poverty, less money to spend on public services etc, to marginally reduce risk to others. And for each person "saved" by lockdowns, probably hundreds have been harmed in this way but because this harm is less acute than covid and may not show up for several years most people don't seem to care.

Developing countries have taken strict measures to try to keep Covid out, and to suppress and contain. Border control, lockdowns, masks.

Contrary to your patronising notion that it's ok for them to have Covid risks 'because they've already got other problems', they very much don't want it.