No senior staff in office

[WayOutOfMyDepth]

My employer has had some people in the office throughout the pandemic as we are classed as key workers and some aspects of the job can't be done remotely. We are mostly junior in terms of grading ie most people on the lowest grade and maybe one or two from one or two grades above. Very rarely someone more senior will come in but they mostly work from home.

There's been a couple of times when people have taken ill/injured themselves and whoever is around has to deal with it.

Some colleagues have fairly complex health needs eg epilepsy, cancer not in remission etc and we have had to manage this ourselves because there is no one from HR and no one health and safety trained on site.

Me and my colleagues only earn £18k and although there is usually someone in from the grade above us they aren't always available. I've had to speak to the 999 service and don't know what I'm talking about when I do. It just doesn't feel either coherent or safe.

How can I raise this? How are other businesses handling it?

To be clear I don't want to take health and safety training myself. I don't want the responsibility given that I don't earn very much. I want our managers to come up with a solution.

It’s very unusual for HR to have any knowledge of individual medications or medical history. That they have a form you fill out really surprises me. Generally HR departments want to know as little as possible to avoid accusations of discrimination.

Even so, the information would not have been accessible quickly. Even if it exists somewhere at your company, it would surely be behind layers of protection. Management wouldn’t have it within the few minutes before the questions began on the phone.

@Tinypuppymom yes you're right I am resentful. We all are. There are people in the office who spend all day on their phones and I can't blame them because it feels like we've just been forgotten about. It was fucking horrendous catching the bus to work in January, and last march, knowing the numbers were so high. We had a few outbreaks in the office, before the vaccines, when track and trace was shit, it was a worry and not one that anyone at home had to consider. And on top of that we're expected to deal with medical emergencies, other tricky situations re security etc, and there's no one physically there. It's just too much.

Sounds like your employer is asking for a law suit as something will eventually get very serious.

If you all feel like this, then your senior team have done a poor job of managing the office recently. Vote with your feet and apply for new jobs.

@SpringRainbow was that during a time when there was a pandemic and you were all putting yourselves at risk by working while your managers stayed at home?

If so, you maybe have some idea of what it's like for us now.

I think the random illnesses and accidents are not the real issue here, it sounds more like you feel unsupported and you feel that the managers are letting you take risks they wont take themselves and that is causing a lot of resentment. You did say that there is usually someone of a senior grade or above on duty and there is sometimes a first aider at work two doors down. Someone must have been given responsibility for the day to day running of the office and is the key holder. It seems strange that all the managers are working remotely and they are allowing the whole place to go down the toilet.
If you have an h.r department then is it quite a large organisation, or is it just a very small office with a few staff. Are there clients involved, you say you are key workers.
The HSE will ask of management are aware of any issues, I would have asked whoever is most senior to email management and h.r to state your concerns and ask for a staff meeting, they are really shit employers if they dont address your issues and agree to a meeting. If it's really that soul destroying and rewarding would you be better off getting another job.

@DogsSausages yes there's usually someone a grade above us. Think one grade below admin supervisor, although a couple of days a week there will be an admin supervisor. No one above that. No managers. We've had people come and leave again who've never met their section manager face to face. They've all gone into hiding.

@WayOutOfMyDepth

And if you knew that the reason there's no management in the building is not because they're unavailable or unavoidably detained but because for all that time they've been sat at home watching while you went out to work on the bus in a pandemic, waking up and listening to the news about 1000 people a day dying, 1800 people a day dying, wondering if today is going to be the day you catch the Rona, while your manager chooses to stay at home and lets you deal with whatever comes up in the office in the meantime, for your £18k a year? Would you still be so sanguine then?

This has nothing to do with first aiders. Do you want a manager at the office each day now? Or do you just feel angry? If you actually feel you need a manager there, then explain clearly and politely in an email that you feel processes are not working well (be specific, which and why) and that you believe the team needs a manager to be physically there in the office each day. If you're just angry then leave and get another job.

I have been able to work from home in a different home, that particular job was years ago.

However my husband is a key worker and his managers being in hasn’t made it any less scary him going out to work every day.

You need to deal with your anger and resentment.

Has anyone spoken to management?

@WayOutOfMyDepth

But why are we expected to assume responsibility for £18k?

If someone collapses in front of you in the street do you just walk by or say sorry I don't get paid so not my responsibility?

I'm not on the fucking street.

It sounds to me like you're mostly angry because you think management should also have been exposing themselves (unnecessarily) to the same risks that you have necessarily been exposed to? If anything, management working at home where possible surely makes you safer and less likely to catch covid?
I would seek clarity over your H&S policies re. first aid and fire evacuation etc. But just because you're paid £18k that doesn't mean you can absolve yourself of taking responsibility for calling an ambulance if a colleague has a medical emergency - that's just part of being an adult.

Ok so theres either an admin supervisor or deputy admin supervisor on duty every day, they may well be the designated acting manager with responsibility for the day to day running of the office. You pass the buck onto them, you email them, ask for a staff meeting, tell them your concerns, it's best if all the staff are on board. Managers dont always need to be on site, they might be relying on the admin to run the office. Dont not do a first aid course because you feel undervalued or that it's not your responsibility, it's a good certificate to have, I would look for another job tbh.

@0None0

Are you asking if a group of normal adults can be left together unsupervised?

That's exactly what I thought.

I've often been the most senior person in the building when I was newly qualified

@WayOutOfMyDepth

I'm not on the fucking street.

If you are anywhere else other than your office would you just ignore another human in distress as you don't get paid enough?

I'm in an office which is supposed to have processes and procedures, and which previously did, very tight ones. But when push came to shove the low paid workers got shoved outdoors and the higher paid ones stayed at home. And stayed. And stayed. For over a year.

The shredding stuff they don't know what to do with and being on the phone instead of working should be raised with a manager. You can also ask for someone first aid trained to be present if the people usually there are unable to control themselves in an emergency/refuse to call an ambulance.

@PurpleyBlue I'm not ignoring anyone. Managers are though.

It’s clear this isn’t about first aiders, you need to speak with management about your concerns. There’s no point in ranting your head off online, it will achieve absolutely zilch. Speak with your team and then approach management.

If there is a problem with the procedures or it is dangerous then tell a manager in writing.

I couldn't even begin to count all of the procedures that have fallen by the wayside since covid. Seriously.

Most office staff are fairly decent/okay on a personal level but we're all demoralised I guess, no one is firing on all cylinders and if someone doesn't know what to do with something it just gets left, like we've all been left, or stashed or shredded or whatever. Fuck knows no one is watching.

I do understand your point. Managers are paid more and generally trained to carry that kind of responsibility. Whenever we've had an on site medical incident it really shakes people up and there needs to be someone calm who can coordinate a response, notify family/next of kin if needed etc.

We have an hr management system where people can put emergency medical info for access by restricted leaders. Occ health advise us on how best to support anyone with disabilities or serious health conditions.
Everyone has the defibrillator code on their lanyard. We always have a first aider on site, even throughout the pandemic.

We have one particular employee who has a potentially serious condition and the best way to help her wouldn't be the intuitive one - moving her if she were to faint could really cause harm.

In your position I'd drop an email to hr, or whoever has operational responsibility, or to your line manager outlining your concerns.

Reading more from you, I think what you have here is actually a stress response. Pandemics turn out to be quite shit and stressful in different ways for everyone; in your case you've obviously felt under strain from needing to travel into work. What it might be is that cases dropped, sun was out, vaccines abundant; so for a moment you let yourself feel calm. Now there's all the news about rising cases and it's and sent you into a spin, when actually you're in less danger than you were back in January, and the anger is a reaction to that stress. It's understandable and there are probably hundreds if not thousands similarly having different types of stress reaction. Your managers may be useless, or may be trusting the supervisors too much, but I don't know if you need something from them as much as you need some support to get on top of the stress. Just a bit of counselling to let it all out might help enormously; your HR should be able to signpost you to some support or your GP.

Ok so someone has a fit
Ring 999. They will ask you questions but they're generally fairly simple ones like are they breathing, has the fit stopped, are they epileptic?
If you don't know, say you don't know
Then they will tell you want to do because that's what their job is. Listen to them and follow the instructions, that's it
You don't need to do anything else except send someone to meet the ambulance

But I don't think that's the issue here, I think it's possibly the last straw that's tipped you over the edge

I can see where you are coming from OP, I previously worked in HR and one of my responsibilities was to ensure all employees health conditions were listed and they were kept in each First Aid box in a sealed envelope along with a copy in HR plus elecrtronic copy. It was only to be seen in an emergency but as we were a 24 hour operation it was vital that those with complex needs were known by HR and First Aiders on site.

I can also see why the OP doesnt want to take on this responsibility, if go forbid something happened with a bad outcome then those on site would be questioned but the responsibility shouldnt lie with them. An example is if someone had an anthalaytic shock from a nut allergy or similar and no one called an ambulance or were aware the employee had this condition and an epi pen then would they be held responsible as the only ones in the building.