Why is hardly anyone talking about the total failure if track and trace?

[Moonme]

I started a thread a few weeks ago saying how angry I was with the government for letting the delta variant in but I’m even more cross now it’s so wide spread in so many areas. With our ‘world beating’ test and trace should we not have been able to keep on top of cases and stop the wider spread? Where has the billions of pounds been spent?
Hardly anyone seems to be mentioning this on any media outlets. Why aren’t we holding this government to account for this?

I’m not tying myself in knots but their actions have a direct impact on my life and the things my family can do...

I’m not happy that we seem to be absolving them from the money they’ve spent and the choices they’ve made which impact us. I don’t think that’s unreasonable.

Previously very compliant people I know are refusing to even get tests now, to avoid all the hassle. Not to say they don't isolate, but getting caught up in that illogical system just isn't feasible anymore.

The system requires public compliance. I think that ship has sailed, or at least is in the harbour getting ready to leave.

@WuhanClanAintNothingToFuckWith ‘Trying it’ as you put it doesn’t cost billions of pounds! It’s theft and it clearly doesn’t work or we would have been able to contain the delta variant better

Yes they tried it at the beginning

You might want to check your diary. The app wasn't even launched until September!

It didn’t work though

Yet they're still piling billions into it. Why would they do that?

I know someone who was told to isolate as a contact but was unfortunately away at the time of the call and had consumed alcohol so couldn't come home. They were told to go straight home when possible. 5 days later they had a positive test and thankfully was very honest about their movements. Going straight home involved brunch out en route and a stocking up trip in Sainsburys for the remainder of their isolation. It isn't a complete disaster. Most people do isolate. I would. I wouldn't be happy but I'd do it. In fact I did on the strength of the stupid app which told me I'd been exposed on a day where I picked up a pint of milk and did a self checkout so no prolonged contact with anyone. Unsurprisingly I did not have covid.

Is the app even T&T? It's not legally binding is it? I deleted it months ago, because frankly I don't want to get pinged. If Im asked I say my Huawei phone can't download it, which is very much twisting the truth as I made sure this would be my last huawei because I'd never have a phone with no Google on it!

The system requires public compliance. I think that ship has sailed, or at least is in the harbour getting ready to leave.

This ^^

The public know that the government are a bunch of liars (although many seem to be ok with that). People are using common sense to keep themselves safe, as they know the PM and Hancock are incompetent.

*I’m not tying myself in knots but their actions have a direct impact on my life and the things my family can do...

I’m not happy that we seem to be absolving them from the money they’ve spent and the choices they’ve made which impact us. I don’t think that’s unreasonable.*

I know, me too, it’s properly shit, I’ve lost my home. But in the scheme of things have u considered any of all the other billions in costs that the pandemic has cost us?

Because of how OUR western economy works, types of industry we have (service and information) we’re totally fucking screwed. Our only hope is work from home, restrictions and ultimately VACCINATION. Test and Trace could be possible when we have HIGH vaccination and compliance only. Still there will be leaks. Unless we abolish all current industry, become miners and self-sufficient farmers and build our own world beating manufacturing industry like China. The Nightingales could be useful if we want to mismanage this and end up like India.

That's my issue with any app . If a close contact got Covid I would self isolate but was once told to scan myself in and out when using a toilet for 2 minutes

Regarding the vast amount of public funds wasted, I don't think people grasp quite how big these amounts are, and what they mean for normal people. Perhaps they'll start looking for answers when austerity kicks in again?

The Nightingales could be useful if we want to mismanage this and end up like India.

We don't have any staff for the Nightingale Hospitals, we never did. Another massive waste of money.

Apparently DH now wants to apply for job involved in running the NHS, Christ help us all!

Gotta love a trier

Presumably the same reasons people ignore all the other millions of £££ this Government have squandered. And all the other contracts they have handed out to their mates. They are fucking criminals in my eyes, but hey ho Boris “got Brexit done” innit? 🙄

The post office's mail tracking system is no where near as bad as Test & Trace...

Indeed, yet another ruling against the government today. They've actually spent more on legal costs than the cost of the contract itself.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/09/covid-contract-for-firm-run-by-cummings-friends-was-unlawful-judge-rules

They were talking about it in woman's hour the other day

But in the scheme of things have u considered any of all the other billions in costs that the pandemic has cost us?

The PPE that wasn't fit for purpose, the contracts given out to Tory donors ... and how can we forget Eat Out to Spread It About.

Yes, we've considered all the billions thw pandemic has cost us.

I agree that it's a colossal waste of money which could have been better spent on almost anything else but I also think there's lots of reasons that a test and trace system for covid was only ever going to have a marginal impact on cases (and all the evidence suggests that it has only ever had a marginal impact).

• Once a person has symptoms and gets a test they have probably already been infectious for a few days. By the time they get the result back and their contacts are contacted you have probably missed the most infectious period for them and potentially for their contacts.
• A large number of people will have covid without having one of the main symptoms or will have no symptoms at all. Around 15 children at my child's nursery had it before anyone noticed and very few had "classic" covid symptoms.
• The "close contact" concept isn't actually a very good way to identify people at risk of having covid. I read some studies suggesting that if you are a close contact your chance of actually getting covid is only about 1% (unless you are in the same hosuehold, in which case it is higher). That is not much higher than the rate for the general population at many points this year. So test and trace might isolate some "close contacts" but those people aren't that likely to have covid anyway. There is probably more randomness than we would like in the way it spreads e.g. superspreaders who infect 100 people even if not in particularly close contact while other people don't infect anyone.
• There are huge disincentives to being tested and notifying your close contacts. These are partially financial but also some people are going to find the prospect of spending 10 days in their house very difficult. In addition to that, once you are in the system you are hassled by test and trace and people may also fear police turning up on their doorstep etc. (even if this is unlikely). A lot of people won't want to subject family or friends to that either. I don't think this side is acknowledged enough. The only place where you really have a choice is to avoid testing or not pick up the phone to test and trace. I have friends who would say they are very compliant with covid rules but when their children have had a cough / fever they have dismissed it as a cold, teething etc and not tested - I think they may genuinely convince themselves that they don't need to test because they fear the isolation period and everything that brings.
• Because isolation is so commonplace for some groups (e.g. people with children in school or nursery) people will get complacent and weary of it. I suspect people mostly follow the rules the first time but a second or third or fifth isolation period just isn't going to be feasible for most people and if you have done it several times and no one has got covid it's going to be difficult to take it seriously. Plus by choosing to get tested you are making a decision which isn't in your child's interest supposedly for the benefit of others - people say they would do that if asked but I suspect the reality is different.

A lot of countries have had similar issues with test and trace. It only really seems to make any difference when cases are very low.

Why did the government spend billions of pounds on something that would never work in the UK...

"Billions" were spent/earmarked for testing that is working pretty well.

fullfact.org/online/37bn-test-trace-spending/

"Tracing" arm is much cheaper. It may not be particularly effective but, FWIW, "isolation of cases" does not appear to shift the dial in other countries either:

www.nature.com/articles/s41562-020-01009-0

@MissyB1

Presumably the same reasons people ignore all the other millions of £££ this Government have squandered. And all the other contracts they have handed out to their mates. They are fucking criminals in my eyes, but hey ho Boris “got Brexit done” innit? 🙄

Agree with this and the huge opportunity cost of what has been spent. There are plenty of ways to save lives with £36bn.

@Failpants

Apparently DH now wants to apply for job involved in running the NHS, Christ help us all!

Gotta love a trier

I'm assuming you mean Dido Harding and not your DH?

Sorry that was meant to quote @Orf1abc

I'll join - I'm in Scotland and test and protect is shite too. Too little, too late IME, talk about closing the stable door after the horse has bolted.

DH and I discuss it a lot!

Indefensible. It's unbelievable. Billions and billions given away in contracts to friends on systems and equipment that hasn't work.

They are crooks. And the people who say, 'oh its all the publics fault' that the Govt chose to give billions and billions to their friends... are idiots.

You might want to check your diary. The app wasn't even launched until September!

Test and Trace is not the app. That’s done on the phones.

Track and Trace is the app which tracks people. Picks up contacts through walls and cars in traffic jams. You might wanna check your facts 🙂