Who's currently cancelling their holiday to Portugal then?

[diggingatrench]

but until the world is vaccinated there is no passport to foreign freedom.

Surely once all UK adults are fully vaccinated, we should be able to go to other countries without getting seriously ill as we will be protected. The same applies to any country where all adults are fully vaccinated. Why does the whole world need to be vaccinated before we can go abroad?

I am not in the slightest but surprised either. It was blindingly obvious that this summer was going to be precisely this.
I've booked for next year to have something to look forward to, thinking it will be a big enough gap, but who knows?
I have friends who work teaching abroad who cant get back to the UK, and it will be 2 years since they have seen elderly parents, that's more important in my view but there is little that can be done. They, including their kids have had both vaccines but where they live is a transport hub so wont be off the red list.

My husband went to Portugal last Saturday to watch the football. Of the 16 official flights from Manchester, at least 5 had day 2 positive cases and now all on those 5 flights have to self isolate. All travellers had a negative PCR result to travel.

No idea of numbers from the unofficial flights or the flights from London.

Hate what's going on but it could be worse. Could have been like australia and been militant not letting people fly at all. They don't care if your mum or dad have died in a different country but they refuse to let you leave. Human rights being taken away in my opinion.

The reason I ‘don’t know why I bothered’ to be vaccinated is because it would appear that I have no more freedom than those who chose not to.

Again, for those at the back: 50% of the population over 18 in the UK are fully vaccinated. That is not enough for the immunity (as a society) to kick in. The reason you had the vaccination is to get to the point (I keep thinking 85% but it could be more? that always seems to be the MMR number) that enough people have had the vaccination that life in the UK can more or less return to normal.

At 50% of people who could be vaccinated it is absolutely insulting to those at the back of the queue to charge them with shirking having it. It is also grossly unfair (the German government ethics committee discussed this at length and this was their conclusion) to open things up for the privileged who have been vaccinated, before opening to everyone under conditions of vaccination, before everyone has at least had the chance of vaccination.

Here, for eg, the rules are the same: vaccinated (with certificate), recovered (with certificate), or negative test (with certificate) gains you the same rights/entry to the places that are open. And this will continue until evreyone has had the chance to be vaccinated.

When this all started i worked for a Chinese company. I have worked for Asian companies for the last 25 years so also lived through the SARS outbreak watching how it went down. And when i saw how differently Asian countries were reacting to COVID-19 i realised it might be the pandemic we have been waiting for. And so i looked at data for the 2018 flu pandemic: nothing got back to normal then for 2 years. So I've been working on 2 years in my mind. Maybe that's why I'm less disappointed about what's going on right now (even while i am hugely sick of home office, no eating out, no gym, no gigs and no theatre)

There are some seriously ignorant people on Mumsnet!

Human rights being taken away in my opinion.

The declaration on human rights does indeed give you the right to a family life. But if you live in a different country to your parents, your right to attend a funeral does not trump millions of other families rights not to get sick.

What will be key, on the human rights front, are things like:

• developed nations ramping up the Covax programme and helping the less rich nations to get their populations vaccinated
• how our rights to movement, speech and association get back to normal

*Why people would even have booked a holiday abroad this year is beyond me

It was obvious it was going to go tits up*

Agreed. Personally I don't think anyone should have even considered going abroad full stop. Surely holidaying in this country this year is better for our economy anyway, and it's not as though there aren't a plethora of lovely places to visit.

I am not in the slightest but surprised either. It was blindingly obvious that this summer was going to be precisely this.

The problem was the government vaguely promised (yes I know we should have known better) that the traffic light scheme would bring some stability to all this and allow people to plan (both those that felt they had to travel and those who facilitate the travelling...)

The idea portrayed, certainly by the likes of Grant Shapps, was that destinations would be reviewed at routine intervals...what we've seen in reality is Portugal being thrown straight back onto the Amber list at the first review point at the very first hint of an upturn in their relatively low case numbers.

Whether the football travel twitched HMG, or whether somebody belatedly realised in reality "Border" wasn't up to the task of monitoring increase travel through airports or......who knows?

Ultimately it does look like the target is Covid zero, to the exclusion of just about any other real world consideration..I guess that appeases those who want the UK Borders closed for Health and other reasons but there will be adverse consequences for many people (not just potential holidaymakers) and for large sections of the economy.

For the 100th time going abroad for many isn’t for a holiday it’s to see family who live abroad.

@Bluesheep8

*Why people would even have booked a holiday abroad this year is beyond me

It was obvious it was going to go tits up*

Agreed. Personally I don't think anyone should have even considered going abroad full stop. Surely holidaying in this country this year is better for our economy anyway, and it's not as though there aren't a plethora of lovely places to visit.

Some of us booked in 2019 to travel in 2020 and couldn’t get money back so bad no choice other than to rebook for 2021 and hope for the best. We’ll now be changing to 2022. But I don’t think it was bonkers to rebook for this summer, last summer, when it was either that or lose my money.

Why the pissing contests over the reasons of having the vaccination?

@wigjuice

Why the pissing contests over the reasons of having the vaccination?

Some people don't like to see inaccuracies stand.

And inaccuracies about whether you should expect vaccination status to make any difference whatsoever to what you can do, could be utterly disastrous. Assuming you don't want a third wave, that is.

UnmentionedElephantDildo

Or they just like to argue?

That's as far as my brain cell extends this beautiful morning, I'm afraid.

Apart from anything else I don't fancy queuing in an airport, sitting on a plane, same other end all masked up etc.

I flew last weekend, albeit within the U.K.

No queues anywhere. Infact the airport was deserted - eerily so! Only one terminal is being used at present for all flights Look at the photograph - this was half term at Manchester airport!

Flight was a doddle. I don't mind wearing my mask, it was fine. And I could take it off to have a drink if I wanted.

Was a bit nervous before we flew but to be honest the scariest but was the empty terminal, empty check in, empty security!

@wigjuice

UnmentionedElephantDildo

Or they just like to argue?

I've stated my view. You are of course free to disbelieve me

One minute its "you need to follow Government Covid guidelines" the next its "why are you stupid enough to believe what comes out of the press conferences"

So glad I'm not alone in having noticed this

I happen to be one of those who trusts little of what they say anyway - within the law, I make my own decisions and always have. However, as said, I worry about what'll happen when "What's the point?" becomes widespread and the implications of there always being new variants are more widely realised

UnmentionedElephantDildo

I never said I didn't. Thank goodness for that little book of clichéd answers though.

There are people in the U.K. who rely on international travel. It’s not just about holidays, it’s about an industry that employs thousands.

There are people overseas who rely on international travel. Countries where tourism brings money in and areas that rely heavily on that. There are projects funded by tourism, conservation and community projects. These are hugely impacted.

The whole thing is at the point of collapse.

One of my trips booked this year has been postponed four times now. If I cancel, I lose money paid out before anyone had even heard of Covid.

I want my children to experience the joy and memories that come with family holidays overseas, the opportunity to properly escape and experience somewhere different. The opportunity to see family who live overseas and who my 4 year old only remembers on a screen.

There are some very black and white views on this thread from naive people saying just don’t go on holiday. It’s not that simple.

You don't need an international holiday to make memories.
I'm one of those away from family and haven't seem my elderly dad for nearly 2 years. It is infuriating and heartbreaking but that is how it is.
I used to travel for work - job gone, thanks to Covid - but a lot of it was, frankly, I necessary. I've been videoconferencing and teleconferencing d'or a few decades and it is usually just as effective. So with lack of recreational traveller's and so on, the really necessary visits should be relatively OK for those who can't avoid it
Tourist industry? It is taking a massive hit. So what's the (not brilliant but best available) answer? Holiday in your own country this year. Or go on Covid-safe holidays abroad, knowing it may all go tits up at short notice.
Most of all: get vaccinated!

@vjg13

My husband went to Portugal last Saturday to watch the football. Of the 16 official flights from Manchester, at least 5 had day 2 positive cases and now all on those 5 flights have to self isolate. All travellers had a negative PCR result to travel.

No idea of numbers from the unofficial flights or the flights from London.

The blame for the football match fiasco needs to sit firmly at the feet of FIFA / UEFA there was absolutely no need for it to be rearranged in Portugal, it had already had to be moved so given the two teams it should have just been in the UK.

@Morgan12

I can't say I have much sympathy tbh. I don't think non essential travel should be allowed just now. Kinda feel like kids being in school is more important and that one more year without foreign holidays was worth sacrificing.

I did book a staycation and also had serious reservations about that. I can't understand how anyone would feel comfortable abroad right now.

"one more year"

Yeah, and then another, and another because "varients"

It won't just be one more year will it?

@SaltySeaBird

There are some very black and white views on this thread from naive people saying just don’t go on holiday. It’s not that simple.

Very much Agreed..

According to some sources government is considering various lobbying groups,/factors and looking at where the votes are to be found:

Those against travel:

Protect 21 June at all costs.
Zero Covid.
Why can't we be like AZ/NZ?
Close the borders (actual reasons irrelevant)?
Home Office - struggling with manning/control at ports of entry.
Environmental lobby.....

On the other side/pro travel:

People needing to travel.
Tourist industry needing travel both out and into UK.
Airlines needing travel out of and into UK.
Airports...etc etc...

@nonono1

but until the world is vaccinated there is no passport to foreign freedom.

Surely once all UK adults are fully vaccinated, we should be able to go to other countries without getting seriously ill as we will be protected. The same applies to any country where all adults are fully vaccinated. Why does the whole world need to be vaccinated before we can go abroad?

Because you could go abroad and bring back a variant that the vaccines don’t work against. Even if you go to a country where most adults are vaccinated. Some won’t be, and kids won’t be. So the risk will still exist.

This is what’s so frustrating about hearing ‘just put your trip off for one more year!’ By the current logic, banned travel isn’t one more year- it’s the foreseeable future.