Question for people who are so anti-vaccine

[User135644]

Whether people choose to take the vaccine or not is up to them, that's not what i'm interested in.

But you get people who are so against the Covid vaccines, yet are also vehemently anti-lockdown and any restrictions (i.e. the rabble in London the other day, spreading anti-vax rhetoric all over the city while doing their best William Wallace impressions 'freedom').

Do these people not realise that without vaccines we'd still massively be up shit creek without a paddle (as many countries still are)? We'd likely still be in lockdown with the Indian variant particularly causing many deaths among the elderly and vulnerable. Therefore, whether you choose to take the vaccine or not, are you not at least glad at the effect they've had on suppressing the virus?

Our government have handled Covid so badly that the vaccines have been a literal life saver for thousands of people. We'd be fucked right now without them. Be grateful.

@maureentr

I have had my vaccine. We aren't talking about people who haven't as yet been offered their vaccine, we are talking about the selfish anti vaxxers who refuse.

Again. What do you think insulting people who disagree with you achieves? If your aim is to maximise vaccination maybe think how you communicate to persuade people. If your aim is to entrench people's opinion not to get vaccinated for Covid your technique is spot on.

@MarshaBradyo

Bumbley why are you so certain when scientists are saying we need to see data?

Certainty on both sides for little reason, really don’t get why so entrenched - maybe PrincessN will see thread and you two can try to convince each other of entrenched and certain positions.

Ummm... you’re the one saying that if we don’t vaccinate the younger groups we won’t be able to lift restrictions etc. It sounds like you’re pretty certain of that too.

You say younger. You need to qualify.

30s and 40s are being vaccinated already and we’re waiting to see data on hospitalisations for next stage. It’s pretty simple.

But yes given it’s on balance now it’s easy to see that no 30s and 40s vaccinated would have an effect.

Anyway no one ever changes their mind on here. So I’m off, we’ll see in two weeks. I should just let the two extreme ends battle it out.

How has anyone been spouting nonsense ? No one has used any scare mongering or emotional fictional responses apart from you @maureentr

Still waiting on those child mortality rates...

@maureentr

You are quite the extreme one, aren’t you?! I’m fully vaccinated and not anti vax or anti mask. I’m also not anti choice. My personal view is that as many people as possible should have the vaccine but if they choose not to, I don’t think we should be infringing on their rights to access healthcare or benefits. The point of universal healthcare is that it’s...universal. It should be available for anyone who needs it - anti vaxxers, criminals, conspiracy theorists. Who they are and what they believe in or have done shouldn’t matter. I don’t wish to live in a society where we ban people from accessing the basics.

[quote Haenow]@maureentr

You are quite the extreme one, aren’t you?! I’m fully vaccinated and not anti vax or anti mask. I’m also not anti choice. My personal view is that as many people as possible should have the vaccine but if they choose not to, I don’t think we should be infringing on their rights to access healthcare or benefits. The point of universal healthcare is that it’s...universal. It should be available for anyone who needs it - anti vaxxers, criminals, conspiracy theorists. Who they are and what they believe in or have done shouldn’t matter. I don’t wish to live in a society where we ban people from accessing the basics.[/quote]
Totally agree!!

People have to have a choice about whether they are happy to take the risk (however small it may be, there is still a risk) to have the vaccine. I don't want to live in a country where that choice is removed.

And I also don't want to live in a country where my private medical information is expected to be given out to access services etc, I.e vaccine passports etc.

A big fundamental aspect of our healthcare is it's universal and free at the point of service. That's hugely important to me. It should never be " you can access healthcare if...."

@SamanthaChumbaMumba

There are a number of reasons for being anti-vaccine. Most of the people who oppose this vaccine genuinely think that it's bad for people, hence they want to stop them from taking it. There are a number of reasons for thinking it's bad. Here are some things I've seen people think:

• Side effects are likely worse than risk of covid in some user groups

-The vaccines are designed to make people infertile as part of a plot to reduce global population

• Potentially therapeutic covid treatments were disregarded deliberately so that the vaccines could be used under emergency licence

• Covid isn't real, the disease is actually caused by chemtrails/5G, therefore the vaccine is not needed

• The vaccine is just a ruse for inserting a microchip into as many of us as possible. This microchip will be used to control us.

-The vaccine hasn't been tested in the normal way due to the 'emergency' licencing - covid is not a severe enough threat for this type of licence.

Some people are anti all vaccines. Some are just anti this vaccine.
Some people are anti this vaccine for all but the most vulnerable.
Some are pro choice but anti vaccine passports (this was by far the majority I saw at the protests).

Not every person who is anti-covid-vaccine is anti-lockdown.
Not every anti-lockdown person is anti-covid-vaccines OR covid-vaccine-passports.

To sum up, it's quite a diverse bunch!

What I would say, to those saying 'I can't understand why anti-lockdown people aren't super-pro vaccine, because it's the only thing that will get us out!' - that is quite a failure of understanding on your part, I reckon.

Many anti-lockdown people have been anti-lockdown from way before we knew that vaccines would be produced so quickly. For them, ending lockdown should not be conditional on the vaccine roll-out, lockdowns should never have happened at all.

Agree. People have many views and I never quite understand lumping them all together. It isn't just a case of saying if you think x then you also think y.

Great post @SamanthaChumbaMumba

For me, this cartoon sums it all up. No need to say anymore.

*I know people who wont take them as they can not afford to isolate if the test comes up positive.+

Yeah this and also I don’t like the tests and am dubious how effective they are. If they came up with a less rank test that was more reliable and didn’t use ridiculous quantities of plastic I’d use them. I’m also fully vaccinated.

I wonder if there is a direct correlation between mask refusers and vaccine refusers.

If people have a history of anaphylaxis of course they shouldn't get the vaccine but I can't think of any other reason to refuse it, bearing in mind restrictions have been challenging for most people you'd think we'd all do whatever we could to get back to normal.

Why do some people want others to do all the unpleasant stuff ie masks and vaccines so they'll also benefit?

@JaniieJones

I wonder if there is a direct correlation between mask refusers and vaccine refusers.

If people have a history of anaphylaxis of course they shouldn't get the vaccine but I can't think of any other reason to refuse it, bearing in mind restrictions have been challenging for most people you'd think we'd all do whatever we could to get back to normal.

Why do some people want others to do all the unpleasant stuff ie masks and vaccines so they'll also benefit?

You take personal responsibility.

If you want to wear a mask, wear one (make sure it is N95 and has been fitted by a professional, anything else is just useless).

If you have explored the risk/benefit ratio and think you need the protection of the vaccine, then do it.

We don’t need mandates. If it works, people will want to do it, if it’s not all that effective (like masks) then is it something we really want to force on people?

'You take personal responsibility. If you want to wear a mask, wear one'

Oh dear. No one 'wants to wear a mask', I doubt anyone actually wants a vaccine but I'm guessing we all want normality to return.

Thankfully millions of people are intelligent enough to understand their actions impact others.

The vaccine refusers should be ashamed of themselves imo.

Oh dear. No one 'wants to wear a mask', I doubt anyone actually wants a vaccine but I'm guessing we all want normality to return

Loads of people want to wear masks. Look at the US where literally vaccinated people are still wearing masks for god knows what reason. Certainly not as a health measure.

And some people want and need vaccines. But not everyone of course.

Thankfully millions of people are intelligent enough to understand their actions impact others

You want a vaccine and you get one. You will be protected and what someone else does is actually kind of irrelevant

'You will be protected and what someone else does is actually kind of irrelevant'

It isn't only about protecting ourselves it is also about keeping community transmission down so restrictions remain lifted. What someone else does is absolutely relevant.

The idea that opposers are leeching off the 'good deeds' of other exists only in the heads of those thinking it.

I’ve seen a few people on mumsnet say that they want to wait to see what effect the vaccine has on other people before they consider taking it themselves. They’re not against the vaccine exactly, just quite happy for nhs workers, the elderly and the vulnerable to take the hit of any possible complications.

Let’s hope that group is specific to mumsnet and not a representative sample of the population.

'I don't know anyone who is anti-mask and anti-vaccine who wants others to do either.The idea that opposers are leeching off the 'good deeds' of other exists only in the heads of those thinking it.'

No but I bet you know many mask refusers snd vaccine refusers who want restrictions lifted. Or perhaps they want to live in lockdown for ever? No they do indeed want everyone else to get vaccinated so they can 'leech off the good deeds of others'.

'As I've explained, a lot of them don't believe that lockdown should be dependent on case numbers/hospital occupancy.'

Fascinating. Perhaps these experts should be liaising with PHE, the CMO and the CSA and sharing all their thoughts? .

Look, we've had a year of listening to the ramblings and enabling of mask refusers, flouters and now vaccine refusers. Their ignorance staggers me but in a free country I have to accept they're allowed their opinions just as I'm allowed to point out the irony of their behaviour. Yeah but no but they don't believe in vaccines but lockdown was a stasi thing from the nazi government. I mean, really?

I've recently had the text to book my vaccine 😩 I just don't bloody want it. Everyone I know around my age group who has been vaccinated has been really unwell after. It feels like I could have a vaccine that is pretty much guaranteed to make me ill (just my feeling based on anecdotal evidence, I know it's not necessarily true) or I could not have it and possibly catch covid (rates are low atm so chance of catching it is low) and even then I may be not as unwell as I would with the vaccine or even asymptomatic. It just doesn't make any logical sense (for my benefit) to me to have it. Also, I've sacrificed enough in the last year and half, having a medical procedure that I neither want nor need is asking too much, it's crossing the line afaic. I also don't buy the whole "we all need to have it or we will be back in lock down". Lock downs are to ease pressure on the NHS, the most vulnerable have been offered a vaccine - we shouldn't need another lock down.

I probably will end up having it, just not yet. I think the vaccines are amazing, I'm not anti at all. I'm so glad that the most vulnerable have been able to have protection from covid, the risks/downsides of vaccines are well worth taking for the benefits for the vulnerable. I'm not relying on anyone for immunity though I'm not fussed about having immunity.

With regards to taking LFT, I can't afford to take the risk of getting a positive, SSP won't cover my bills and feed my kids 🤷‍♀️

As I've explained, a lot of them don't believe that lockdown should be dependent on case numbers/hospital occupancy.

What then happens? According to this view

Are difficult health decisions made or something else (we don’t overwhelm etc)

'The idea that the health agencies (not sure who the CSA are other than the old name for the CMA?) were the only ones who should have been listened to/consulted on such a huge matter which affect the whole country in ways unrelated to health has been a big part of the problem, in my opinion.'

Chief scientific advisor. Have you heard of Sir Patrick Vallance?

They aren't the 'only' people consulted. Epidemiologists, virologists, behavioural experts, economists, NHS, PHE. The list goes on. A multitude of actual experts who have shared their data. Not Beryl from next door whose nan says masks don't work.

'You aren't really accepting that they're allowed their opinions, though, are you?'

I am, I just disagree with them.