Fed up of being labelled an ‘anti-vaxxer’

[WilsonMilson]

Just that. I’ve expressed some concerns about the vaccines, AZ in particular.

I’m very glad we have vaccines for the elderly and vulnerable, as covid can be deadly. But, as yet we simply do not have the data on longer term outcomes from vaccines and that concerns me when we start jabbing the young and the healthy. We are already seeing blood clots with AZ becoming a serious issue.

I’d consider myself an educated and informed person. My ds has had all his routine vaccinations to now and I am not a tin foil hat wearer, flat earthier, or conspiracy loon of any description. Yet, whenever trying to initiate a sensible discussion based on science and reason, it gets shot down as conspiracy or am labelled an ‘anti-vaxxer’, which I am emphatically not.

Why is is so difficult, here and elsewhere to have a sensible discussion about this?

I can't even be bothered to try and answer again.

You're anti this vaccination. Obviously.

If you're for it, have it

@AUserName12345 you’re quoting sources from Bit Chute which has been overwhelmingly discredited as:

BitChute describes itself as a ‘free speech’ website but report accuses it of platforming ‘hate and terror’

BitChute is best described as the right-wing alternative to YouTube.

Hate speech. Neo-Nazi propaganda. Anti-Semitic QAnon conspiracy theories. Even terrorism. It's all there. And the platform keeps growing

Under the guise of anti-censorship and free speech, video-hosting service BitChute has become a hotbed for violent, conspiratorial and hate-filled video propaganda, and a recruiting ground for extremists

BitChute joins an ecosystem of alternative, low content moderation platforms, including Gab, Voat, Minds, and 4chan. Uniquely, BitChute is the first of these alternative platforms to focus on video content and is growing in popularity. Our analysis reveals several key characteristics of the platform. We find that only a handful of channels receive any engagement, and almost all of those channels contain conspiracies or hate speech. This high rate of hate speech on the platform as a whole, much of which is anti-Semitic, is particularly concerning. Our results suggest that BitChute has a higher rate of hate speech than Gab but less than 4chan. Lastly, we find that while some BitChute content producers have been banned from other platforms, many maintain profiles on mainstream social media platforms, particularly YouTube

"not credible source" - why and who decided?

"not backed up by robust evidence" - as above

@AUserName12345

Because the claims they make are not backed up by good quality scientific evidence, hence why 99% of the worlds experts disagree with their views

ie.,
it is safer to not have the vaccine if you are under 80
asymptomatic transmission is not possible
no healthy child has died of coronavirus
the mRNA vaccines will change your DNA
the reason we're being vaccinated is to create a "unique identifier" for each person (from a transcript of a Yeadon talk - he never elaborates or expands on what this means)
HCQ is an effective treatment for COVID

all these claims are false and have been disproven by robust, good quality scientific evidence

And you’re quoting from UK Column which was just today removed from YouTube, again a platform for far right hate speech which has almost no factual credibility.

*Overall, we rate the UK Column a strong right-wing biased conspiracy website that frequently promotes false or misleading information.
Detailed Report

Bias Rating: RIGHT CONSPIRACY
Factual Reporting: LOW
Country: United Kingdom (35/180 Press Freedom)
Media Type: Newspaper
Traffic/Popularity: Medium Traffic
MBFC Credibility Rating: LOW CREDIBILITY*

as I have repeatedly said on this and many other threads, if you don't feel comfortable having the vaccine then don't have it. Of course no one should be pressured into having a vaccine if it's then going to cause them anxiety.

but stop trying to justify this with misinformation and scaremongering

@Llmoyad "debunked" how? And by whom?

Here's the source, NHS Salford Clinical Commissioning Group: www.facebook.com/SalfordCCG/photos/a.296307897123630/3932673853486998

Can you link me to where they've been 'debunked'? Happy to hear I'm wrong but only if it's backed up by a link to evidence by a reputable source, not with an 'actually, I think you'll find that...'

@Llmoyad and by reputable I mean in the scientific sense, i.e. appearing in a peer reviewed journal or paper, as is the industry standard.

Not 'random quoted Dr or Professor of XYZ' appearing on a website that exists solely to support this cause.

It's would be quite interesting if a poster had a posting history of nothing until today, where they post exclusively on a vaccine thread spreading misinformation. 🤔

@LolaSmiles quoting bit chute and uk column

and michael yeadon of all people...

[quote AlmostSummer21]@WilsonMilson

I'm sorry you appear to have missed the replies that I and many others have posted, doing our best to explain why certain things aren't a concern or the risks of the vax v the risks of Covid.

So, so, many threads. I have definitely made an effort to educate rather than belittle, but at the moment it's hard to be patient when there are several threads every day, with OP's appearing not to even try to understand.

What is it specifically you'd like to discuss?

Quick one though. The vaccine is in & out if your system very quickly. It just makes your body make antibodies so that you recognise it, if you get it and so your body can fight it off.

That's why long term problems don't occur, because it's just not there to cause problems.[/quote]
Excellent post. Hesitancy is normal, but not taking the time to research concerns or listen to advice is inexcusable. Many of the threads include something along the lines of "Well my grandma's brother's ex-wife's dog's previous owner had the AZ and his leg fell off" as if anecdotes bear any weight on the overwhelming evidence that it is safe. A little credible research goes a long way.

I wouldn't wish to speculate, but it would be very interesting if that were the case.
It might call into question whether a discussion was in good faith.

Do you think it's because your concerns appear to be unable to be addressed, by anyone? The immovable nature of your concerns means that by default, you're on the side of the anti-vaxxers? It doesn't appear that you're neutral if you have ongoing, continuous concerns that cannot be quashed?

What would remove your concern? If there's no answer, nothing that can remove it, then are you not an anti-vaxxer?

Again, where is the "misinformation"? @AUserName12345

lots of people have provided rationale and evidence as to why the things you are saying are false, but you don't engage, just swerve onto another topic

it's a very common theme on these threads

@AUserName12345

I've responded to numerous points that you have made with actual facts. You have made various assertions that make it pretty clear that you align with a particular philosophy which is, in my view, fundamentally misconceived and influenced by organisations with a particular agenda.

I'm not really interested in debating the point with you any further because I find your position so completely lacking in credibility that it's pointless.

I've had my vaccine, my DH has had his vaccine and my DC will have theirs as and when the appropriate trials have been concluded and it is recommended that they do so,

@speckledostrichegg

"not credible source" - why and who decided?

"not backed up by robust evidence" - as above

@AUserName12345

Because the claims they make are not backed up by good quality scientific evidence, hence why 99% of the worlds experts disagree with their views

ie.,
it is safer to not have the vaccine if you are under 80
asymptomatic transmission is not possible
no healthy child has died of coronavirus
the mRNA vaccines will change your DNA
the reason we're being vaccinated is to create a "unique identifier" for each person (from a transcript of a Yeadon talk - he never elaborates or expands on what this means)
HCQ is an effective treatment for COVID

all these claims are false and have been disproven by robust, good quality scientific evidence

well you ignored my whole long ass post prev on Yeadon, here it is again @AUserName12345

userlotsanumbers
That's the big question that generally marks the difference between an anti-vaxxer/conspiracy theorist and someone who has some questions or is hesitant regarding the vaccine.

The latter are usually very reasonable people and they would be able to discuss what information would change their mind, what data would change their mind.
The former won't have an answer because anything contrary to their opinion is probably fake news from the government or lies designed to destroy society.

Again, where is the "misinformation"?

Did someone see a sealion?

Here's one of Yeadon's most infamous quotes about the vaccines, where he peddles a load of conspiracy theories at once - you often see them repeated by posters here. It was shared on rumble in April - the whole video can be found there but i wouldn't recommend bothering to watch it. I don't know how anyone can be pulled into this kind of vortex of irrational thinking.

“ ...I believe that purpose (of the vaccines) is complete totalitarian control and I think the purpose of that is going to be mass depopulation,”
“I can’t think of a single benign interpretation for the simple creation of these top-up vaccines, let alone the lies that surround them.... absolutely terrified that the combination of vaccine passports and top-up vaccines is going to lead to mass depopulation. Deliberate execution potentially of billions of people.”

deliberate execution of billions of people?! jesus christ