Fed up of being labelled an ‘anti-vaxxer’

[WilsonMilson]

Just that. I’ve expressed some concerns about the vaccines, AZ in particular.

I’m very glad we have vaccines for the elderly and vulnerable, as covid can be deadly. But, as yet we simply do not have the data on longer term outcomes from vaccines and that concerns me when we start jabbing the young and the healthy. We are already seeing blood clots with AZ becoming a serious issue.

I’d consider myself an educated and informed person. My ds has had all his routine vaccinations to now and I am not a tin foil hat wearer, flat earthier, or conspiracy loon of any description. Yet, whenever trying to initiate a sensible discussion based on science and reason, it gets shot down as conspiracy or am labelled an ‘anti-vaxxer’, which I am emphatically not.

Why is is so difficult, here and elsewhere to have a sensible discussion about this?

Because the more young and healthy people decide not to get vaccinated, but do return to socialising etc, the more covid circulates in the general population and therefore the more risk to those people who are at genuinely high risk from either the vaccine or covid

This. Times a million.

Furthermore, the risk of clots from the AZ vaccine has been exaggerated:

• by big pharma companies who are pissed off that AstraZeneca & Oxford University made a deal that was designed not to make huge profits, and that also guaranteed vaccine to the global South.

• Big pharma are pissed off that they can't make billions from their vaccines, so have been encouraging journalists to spread fear-inducing stories.

• your risk of suffering blood clots is far higher from COVID than the vaccine

• women taking the contraceptive pill risk blood clots.

@AUserName12345

I’m not particularly pro or anti vax. I chose to have it because my personal risk is high but I try to be open minded. I’d be interested if you had any evidence or research suggesting your claim; ”By everyone taking tha vaccine (as I detailed earlier) you put selective pressure on teh virus to mutate to a more deadly form.” I genuinely don’t understand it nor understand why this doesn’t happen to other viruses that we vaccinate against.

Oh! The vaccine driven mutation. I haven't seent that one for a day or two.

Fact: it is not all that new to science, which started by looking at the difference between vaccine caused mutations and natural mutations. See, nobody actually denies mutating is a virus's natural evolution. Just as antiobiotics become less effective with overuse, the logic is that overuse of a vaccine will cause mutations. Note that overuse

And there has been ongoing research into vaccine induced antigen shiftes for many years. But the less informed/easily alarmed/think they are clever kind of person will leap to conclusions that science cannot support. Giv it a deace and maybe that will be diffferent, but currently the fact that many reputable scientists (and some Wakeley alikes) are asking the questions doesn't mean there is an answer, or a real, measurable threat.

Oh, most of the questions are based on a study in the US in Mareks disease in chickens.

Again what is "utter bollocks"?

Stating that countries have banned the PCR test as not fit for purpose qualifies as utter bollocks.

@AUserName12345 do you have evidence for anything you have posted?

Because if you do not then you are posting unsupported rubbish.

And if you do then there can be a discussion about the research rather than batting off an opinion.

You're sick of people disagreeing with you so you've started a thread where people can disagree with you?

I guess there's logic in there, somewhere.

And here's the bit you left out:

According to the process: “There is no evidence that this diagnosis was actually carried out by a professional qualified under the Law and who had acted in accordance with good medical practices”. These acts are reserved for the exclusive competence of a doctor.

And applies only to the case of four Germans who were held in quarantine. This is hardly a ban on the use of the test by the entire country of Portugal. Do you have similarly lame for your assertion that Germany has "banned" it as well?

What “science” and “reason” do you draw on?

It seems quite simple to me- unless you’re more ‘well educated and informed’ than the medical experts who have created this vaccine, rigorously tested it, and approved it, then you should listen to their expert advice. Lots of drugs have a massive list of side effects, it doesn’t mean we don’t take them. The pill is more likely to give you a blood clot than AZ is. No one knows the long term effects of this vaccine. But we know the immediate effects of covid, and the effects that it’s having on everything else. You might be totally fine if you catch covid, it probably won’t kill you or anyone you know. but the delay in other nhs treatments that is being caused by covid might.

AUserName12345 you have mentioned and referenced a "news" organisation called UK Column several times. Not a very credible source.

mediabiasfactcheck.com/uk-column/

Why sort of conversation do you want to have about it? If you are anti vaccination just don’t get it and go about your normal business.

@IntoAir

Because the more young and healthy people decide not to get vaccinated, but do return to socialising etc, the more covid circulates in the general population and therefore the more risk to those people who are at genuinely high risk from either the vaccine or covid

This. Times a million.

Furthermore, the risk of clots from the AZ vaccine has been exaggerated:

• by big pharma companies who are pissed off that AstraZeneca & Oxford University made a deal that was designed not to make huge profits, and that also guaranteed vaccine to the global South.

• Big pharma are pissed off that they can't make billions from their vaccines, so have been encouraging journalists to spread fear-inducing stories.

• your risk of suffering blood clots is far higher from COVID than the vaccine

• women taking the contraceptive pill risk blood clots.

Do you have any sources for your ‘big pharma’ conspiracy claims?

Do you have the risk of blood clots from COVID broken down by age to compare to the risk of blood clots from the vaccine broken down by age?

Clots from the contraceptive pill are a different type of clot that isn’t as deadly.

Dr Michael Yeadon, Dr Ger vanden Bossche

it took 8 pages but here we are

@AUserName12345 the are not credible sources and have spread a lot of misinformation, not backed up by robust evidence, throughout the last year. I wouldn't be quoting them as where you are getting you information from.

If its so rigourously tested why has the control group from the trial been given the vaccine (Thus removing them from long term saftery efects comparison - this is not normal practice)

@AUserName12345 so much misinformation to unpack from your post but I'll take this one

because it would be bloody unethical to deny individuals a vaccine against coronavirus during pandemic! Can you imagine the justified outcry if people who had volunteered their time to trials weren't offered protection purely in the name of research?