Are you one of the people who is very very reluctantly going to get vaccinated?

[Itsnotyourchoiceanymore]

Could you please tell me how you are managing the stress/anxiety surrounding it? I don’t want this vaccine- but I’m being forced to go for it. I’m so worried nervous that I cannot sleep properly.I need to book the bloody thing soon but I just cannot bring myself to do it..I’m 40 so not sure which one I’ll get.

@daysofpearlyspencer

We have a choice: we get vaccinated or we stay locked down or we overwhelm the NHS. Covid isnt just going to go away. I know what i prefer. A year ago we all prayed for a vaccine now its all drama over which one to have. Suspect those in poor countries would like this dilemma...

No, vaccinating the groups most likely to end up in hospital will prevent the nhs being overwhelmed - the top 9 groups that the JCVI identified. The majority in these groups has taken the vaccine and, even without second doses, there are very few hospitalisations/deaths. We have been successfully easing restrictions without seeing surges in hospitalisations so that should tell you that we don’t need everyone to be vaccinated to stop the nhs being overwhelmed.

Rather than continuing to vaccinate very low risk people and, in many cases, pressuring/guilting them into it, we should be prioritising the more vulnerable groups in other countries.

I agree Bumbly, maybe we need to wait a few weeks and see how we cope with the rising numbers of the IV but I am no scientist but surely if the vaccines can beat that - keep hospital rate low then surely thats a good measure they will beat most varients?

OP I understand why you feel this way. I felt very pressurised and had to have it because of my job and also pressure from family members (although one family member is a staunch anti-vax/QAnon supporter which didn't help).
My worries were due to a previous severe allergic reaction and I was terrified.The mass vaccination actually refused to do my jab because of this and I was turned away, so please be reassured you won't be forced into it. They can't actually make you. It is a choice based on risks and this was made very clear.
I have now reluctantly had the jab at my doctor's surgery. It had to be the AZ due to my previous allergic reaction. The nurse doing the vaccination spent quite some time talking it through with me and it was good to have a medical person with my medical notes in front of them. I am not going to tell you to have it or not have it as that is your choice, but my advice is to talk to your doctor who has your medical history.

@ShouldersBackChestOutChinUp

We don't know how long natural immunity lasts.

Getting the vaccine as well is a good idea.

We know more about how long natural immunity lasts than vaccine induced immunity!

Several studies have now shown that it lasts over 8 months for most people. (Particularly younger people)

Op, I wanted to answer your question about what happens if you tell the doctor or nurse you feel pressurised.

I have health anxiety, and was apprehensive about as-yet-unknown serious side effects back in late February when I had my first. On the day I felt ok until going into the centre - had that awful feeling of approaching the point of no return. I told someone I felt anxious and they briefly spoke to me (acknowledging that it was true nobody could give a cast-iron guarantee about potential side effects, but pointing out the testing that had been done, Covid risks - somehow just having my fear acknowledged, but put into context rather than being dismissed as silly or anti-vaxxer really helped), asked if I wanted a chat with a doctor (I said no) and let me sit for a while to decide. I said I felt there was pressure to be vaccinated, and it was strongly emphasised that it was my choice to make and that if I chose not to go ahead that day it didn’t mean I couldn’t later change my mind. They were truly excellent. No pressure, no rush. I ended up having it.

Second time around the blood clots were known about and although I’d decided to have it, I mentioned to the doctor that I was nervous and not looking forward to weeks of worrying about headaches. Again, they made sure I really did want to go ahead and told me to call my surgery if I was worried about anything at all, including anxiety itself.

Nothing was recorded, but I can say from my experience that if you show any hesitancy they will not proceed unless and until you’ve very clearly said you want to. As is right.

"Rather than continuing to vaccinate very low risk people and, in many cases, pressuring/guilting them into it, we should be prioritising the more vulnerable groups in other countries."

This conveniently forgets that many people on immune suppression drugs such as cancer patients are not getting good immunity from vaccination. It forgets the people like my son who have a vastly increased risk from the vaccine compared with most, and also a higher risk of complications from covid. Healthy young people go out, they mix, they socialise, they spread covid and that increases the risk to some of the most vulnerable who cannot be vaccinated, or cannot be successfully vaccinated for immunity.

I had the AZ no side effects with either dose. My husband was a bit achy for a day.
No one in my family has been ill be either vaccine.

For me the worsed part is not being allowed to have a different opinion, since when did it become normal not be allowed to have a choice. All these comments flying around on MN branding people selfish,miss informed, anti vaxx, conspiracy theorists just blow my mind. we're not all nut jobs and we should be allowed to decided if we want a unknown vaccine or not without being belittled and beat down. I'm very close to losing my job very soon for not having it and it may come to the point where i have to have it as i can't afford not too.( I honestly cant imagine what i will do when they come at me with the vaccine. ) the thing that makes me laugh is all these new variants, there will always be a new variants and threats to lock us down again, its not going to end no matter how many jabs you have.

@WyldStallions

"Rather than continuing to vaccinate very low risk people and, in many cases, pressuring/guilting them into it, we should be prioritising the more vulnerable groups in other countries."

This conveniently forgets that many people on immune suppression drugs such as cancer patients are not getting good immunity from vaccination. It forgets the people like my son who have a vastly increased risk from the vaccine compared with most, and also a higher risk of complications from covid. Healthy young people go out, they mix, they socialise, they spread covid and that increases the risk to some of the most vulnerable who cannot be vaccinated, or cannot be successfully vaccinated for immunity.

It’s not ‘forgetting’ that, it’s accepting that there can be no guarantees of protection. Just like with other illnesses, such as flu or even the common cold, immunocompromised people have to decide whether they want to take the risk of being out and about where they can come across a non-immune person who could make them ill.

the thing that makes me laugh is all these new variants, there will always be a new variants and threats to lock us down again, its not going to end no matter how many jabs you have.

I'm not a doctor or a scientist, but from what I can see there are two ways forward here.

1. We either carry on with lockdowns and social distancing for years, with disastrous consequences for the economy and society, or we just forget about trying to contain the virus and hope for the best, in which case all the health care services of the world would be overwhelmed. All normal healthcare out of the window. Vital services disrupted because key personnel fall ill. Eventually almost everybody will have caught Covid and we will have natural herd immunity, which will stop the virus as it won't have any more hosts to live in - all the people who had it will now have natural immunity. Unfortunately, millions will have died and many others will be left with serious health problems, both from Covid and the other health conditions left untreated during the disruption. Economy on the floor.

1. Mass vaccination, the same approach used with huge success to overcome smallpox, diphtheria, tetanus, polio, whooping cough, measles, mumps, rubella, hepatitis, meningitis, chicken pox, TB etc. Not everybody can be vaccinated for medical reasons, but for most people it will be perfectly safe. Our immune systems learn how to kill the covid virus without the risk and discomfort of actually getting a full blown infection. No need for health care after having the injection. Slowly but surely, no need for lockdown either.

3. we vaccinate the top 9 groups that are most likely to end up in hospital, putting strain on the health services, and accounting for ~99% of the deaths. This vaccine coverage, along with immunity from people who have recovered from natural infection (and are unlikely to end up in hospital) will result in reduced transmission in the community and Society can carry on and start working on economic recovery.

The JCVI advised 3, were in the middle of 3. 3 is working.

@bumbleymummy

3) we vaccinate the top 9 groups that are most likely to end up in hospital, putting strain on the health services, and accounting for ~99% of the deaths. This vaccine coverage, along with immunity from people who have recovered from natural infection (and are unlikely to end up in hospital) will result in reduced transmission in the community and Society can carry on and start working on economic recovery.

The JCVI advised 3, were in the middle of 3. 3 is working.

What do you think about breakdown if people in Bolton hospital?

Medic outlined

• handful double
• some one dose
• but also those just eligible for vaccine eg 30s and 40s

@GoldenOmber

and the big one, they didn't ease restrictions until 70% fully vaccinated, we are doing it at 45% or plan too!

That’s not right, Israel doesn’t have 70% fully vaccinated even now.

It is correct, because you are looking at the total population, where as only those over 16 get a vaccination, approx 70%. Israel has 3m u16's out of 9.3m,

I got the figure from a R4 program, which was interviewing a scientist, the figure wasn't challenged.

In March they had fully vaccinated 4.5m adults out of 6.2m and 5.5m had had either one or two doses.

@MarshaBradyo

: "Even though there is a high proportion of cases, that high proportion of cases is not translating into significant increases in hospitalisation, and, more importantly, it is not leading to more people in ICU." - Sir Richard Leese

That sounds quite positive to me.

I wonder how many of the younger people being admitted are overweight/obese. Whether people like to accept it or not, it is a risk factor.

@Octopuscake

You've probably eaten more toxic carcinogenic microplastics in a fish supper in the last fortnight than there is anything that will harm you in that vaccine.

Literally millions have taken it and are fine, it's been tested as much as anything else has. You've been duped by misinformation. It doesn't feel like you have, sure, but ask yourself how would I know?

Literally millions have had COVID and are fine also.

[quote bumbleymummy]@MarshaBradyo

: "Even though there is a high proportion of cases, that high proportion of cases is not translating into significant increases in hospitalisation, and, more importantly, it is not leading to more people in ICU." - Sir Richard Leese

That sounds quite positive to me.

I wonder how many of the younger people being admitted are overweight/obese. Whether people like to accept it or not, it is a risk factor.[/quote]
I agree and would like to see further breakdown on that. I have no issue with looking into detail, but still that figure can be quite high in U.K.

On the quote I hope this is correct - where did he say it?

I don't really want it. I'm pregnant at the moment and doctor recommends to get it after baby is born once I'm breastfeeding, which I probably will do, but I would rather not.

I am not worried about side effects etc. But I don't think it's necessary (I don't get a flu jab) and I get very anxious around needles. I have what I need to. I had a tetanus jab when I cut myself accidentally, and I had a DTAP to protect the baby when it's born (although I agreed to that very quickly before I could chicken out and on balance, I don't know that that was necessary either. But it's done now and no harm done.)

I will probably have it. DH worried about transmission to newborn, both of our mums have refused to have it so it makes sense to protect them if we ever get to see them any time soon (live abroad), makes things simpler in terms of travel etc. I do think it's lower risk than having COVID itself, I just don't feel that the risk reduction is worth it for me personally. I will get it mainly because of social pressure, rather than because I think it's the right thing to do and that feels a bit wrong/uncomfortable to me.

I'm kind of hoping they get somewhere with the nasal spray because TBH I would not mind having that version half as much, even if it's less effective.

@Octopuscake, do you know anything about the effects at medium and long term (5+years) of the vaccine?
Maybe separated by type of issue and background of the receiver?

I’d love to be able to read more on that...

I understand that you are under pressure from your peers to get vaccinated and that must be hard but that doesn't mean you're being forced. Absolutely no one can force you to have it done.

If you're confident in your reasons why you don't want it then that is enough.

I'm always shocked though when people say they are concerned about side effects when tens of millions of people have already been vaccinated with very very few serious side effects.

The other main reason for getting people vaccinated is not related to illness and death from the current variants but from the danger of a virus with more opportunity to mutate.

More vaccinated people - less replication, less potential for mutations to creep in. Sure, mutations can be 'good' as well as 'bad' but it seems an unnecessary risk to take, to me.

@MarshaBradyo it was from a BBC article from today.

@Aalvarino it’s believed that the U.K. b117 strain arose in a single, chronically infected patient so I really don’t think it’s realistic to prevent mutations.

@bumbleymummy are you a virologist? I'm not, and consequently I don't think I would feel confident making that sort of pronouncement. However, I am minded to go with the actual virologists.

Is that the accepted wisdom on how b117 arose? I thought that was speculation, but that it could never be proved. And what if putative patient zero for b117 had been vaccinated?

What is your view on vaccines more generally, @bumbleymummy?

I wonder how many of the younger people being admitted are overweight/obese. Whether people like to accept it or not, it is a risk factor. presumably plenty, but that doesn't make it fine for them as individuals and looking at the bigger picture - what matters is hospitals not getting filled up.

Nobody can force you
Just tell them you've had both. That's what I've started doing, they're none the wiser.
I'll have it when the trial has finished, and the gineau pigs have done their bit.

They might be none the wiser and I originally thought this was OK but... what if they base their behaviour on your vaccine status? As humans are wont to do.... Wouldn't you feel guilty if e.g., they were too vulnerable to be vaccinated and had they known, they would have stayed away from you?