Cummings evidence today

[Dirtystreetpie]

Anyone listening?

Absolutely SAGE got caught up. Hence the advice for the immediate firebreak in September. They weren’t going to make the same mistake twice. Boris still isn’t taking it seriously and you can tell every time he does a press conference. Every now and then they force him into a sombre one and make him brush his hair a bit, but there’s very little sign of him having learnt anything.

Nor me. It's total delusion. It's almost like the worse he is, the extra awful stuff he does, people like him even more.

It baffles me.
I think it's the blunders, the hair, the personality or something. The fact he is incapable of doing the job seems to pass them by

@Roussette

Can't stand the bloke but I'm prepared to listen to him. There's a reason why we have the worst death rate in Europe when we just knew what wa coming our way from Italy.

We haven't. Italy and Belgium have www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ Italy, who locked down 2 weeks before us.

Per million we aren't much different to Spain and France.

I think many people have forgotten just how shocking the government response was back in March 2020.

There was no response! People were carrying on as normal. Then a month later people were swearing that China (which literally quarantined an entire city and province) must be lying about its figures, when in reality their government had actually done stuff to protect its people while ours just sat back and watched the show for two months.

So people to blame who are not Johnson :

1. SAGE
2. Carrie
3. Hancock

Not Cummings obviously because he isn't a clever man, anyone else hear 'Brutus is an honorable man' when he said this ?

@JaniieJones
Because the UK hoovered up a huge number of vaccines. Don’t get me wrong, the British government has handled things reasonably well this year. But last year, particularly Feb - July, it’s negligence cost thousands of lives.

I just read on Mumsnet on another thread that a leadership challenge might come out if this! God help us all if it does.

Well... given we are so far on with our vaccine programme, it is an appalling death rate.

I have just read the BBC article.

What I see is a man mostly claiming his opinion as truth with no supporting evidence or additional witnesses.

One example:
"Tens of thousands of people died, who didn't need to die," Mr Cummings added.

Fucking hell! Seriously?
He has the qualifications and knowledge to ascertain this when top scientists and doctors in the field would not dare to put their reputations and careers on the line by categorically stating such?
Sure, there are a few media hungry ones in love with the sound of their own voices who would but not ones with any scientific integrity because these things cannot be known, they can only be theorised.
They might think it, they might have some data that is supportive but most would err on the side of caution and would not state their opinion as fact.

Scientists favourite phrases include:
We just don't know.
Cannot be proven.
Results are inconclusive.

Dominic Cummings should share his method of reaching certainty where none exists with the scientific community.

"Cos I say so" doesn't quite cut it.

@JaniieJones
Two months after China had built an emergency hospital to deal with an overwhelming number of cases, Johnson was on March 7th shaking hands with players at Twickenham. All fine! Carry on! He is/was an absolute joke.
As Dominic Cummings, said, there were literally hundreds of thousands of reasonably intelligent people in the country who could see the disaster unfolding - and yet the PM couldn’t.

What I don't understand is his fixation with Bill Gates? At least in the bit I watched- I didn't watch all of it. It was something about Bill Gates saying x, y z about vaccines and that the gov should have listened to him.
Is Bill Gates particular adept at any aspect of the vaccine development process? Does him opinion actually hold any weight?
Genuine question as I'm puzzled what Gates has to do with the UK response.

@SilverGoblin

I have just read the BBC article.

What I see is a man mostly claiming his opinion as truth with no supporting evidence or additional witnesses.

One example:
"Tens of thousands of people died, who didn't need to die," Mr Cummings added.

Fucking hell! Seriously?
He has the qualifications and knowledge to ascertain this when top scientists and doctors in the field would not dare to put their reputations and careers on the line by categorically stating such?
Sure, there are a few media hungry ones in love with the sound of their own voices who would but not ones with any scientific integrity because these things cannot be known, they can only be theorised.
They might think it, they might have some data that is supportive but most would err on the side of caution and would not state their opinion as fact.

Scientists favourite phrases include:
We just don't know.
Cannot be proven.
Results are inconclusive.

Dominic Cummings should share his method of reaching certainty where none exists with the scientific community.

"Cos I say so" doesn't quite cut it.

You'd be hard-pressed to find a qualified scientist in the country who wouldn't agree that IF SAGE and the government had acted sooner and more sensibly back in Jan/Feb, then tens of thousands would not have died.

There are actually NO surprises at all in Cummings' testimony today - everything important he has said (Boris's fiance issues aside) is a matter of public record. It's just that the UK is full of too many tribal idiots who refuse absolutely to believe ANYTHING that isn't written in the Daily Express.

@RafaIsTheKingOfClay
Every now and then they force him into a sombre one and make him brush his hair a bit, but there’s very little sign of him having learnt anything.

I don’t think it’s a case of him not learning, it’s a case of him not caring. It’s all about him. He’s a sociopath.

'Well... given we are so far on with our vaccine programme, it is an appalling death rate.'

It is I agree, but sadly in a pandemic there will be an appalling death rate in densely populated countries. My point was Italy and Belgium have more per million and the rest of Europe including us are pretty similar.

Compliance in this country was a problem, we have had thread after thread about dictatorships and civil liberties so I do believe the window of opportunity for containment through lockdown was very narrow.

That's not to say lessons shouldn't be learnt of course but Cumming's reveals aren't all that imo.

He's always wanted the job. He's just incapable of doing it.

He's best at bluster and soundbites and that's it.

Bill gates predicted this pandemic in 2015. ( Ted talks )
He probably has shares in all kinds of big pharmaceutical companies. I watched most of today , but missed the bit about Gates but he has been linked to this pandemic ( including many conspiracy theories around him too)
Not sure what Dominic said about him though?

That moment before the last election when Johnson was filmed putting the journalists phone in his pocket. And then hid in the fridge/pantry. That was him to a T. That was the real Johnson slipping out of the “Boris” mask for a brief second. A devious opportunistic coward whose sole concern is how X will look and whether X will be good or bad for his prospects.

Well.... I think Cummings' reveals are shocking. In more ways than one.

And I know he is wriggling off the hook himself, but there are facts he stated that cannot be disputed.

He is saying what we all suspected.

I still feel a bit 😲 about the whole thing!

@Roussette

Well.... I think Cummings' reveals are shocking. In more ways than one.

And I know he is wriggling off the hook himself, but there are facts he stated that cannot be disputed.

He is saying what we all suspected.

Which allegations struck you as the most serious?

Out of it the insight into SAGE not wanting lockdown early on surprised me. The rest I felt I knew already somehow

The care home scandal is sad for me personally , but I can't see who will stick up for the people and workers who deal with the most vulnerable in society. It'll be air brushed away and as so many that died were elderly or poorly anyway , people will just shrug :(
I doubt anyone will get the truth about any of that.

I seemed to miss the care home section when listening

10pm, Sky News. Hancock says he was too busy 'saving lives' to listen to Dominic Cummings. What on earth does he mean?

The fact that Hancock promised to test those taken out of hospital into care homes would be tested. The 'shield' did not happen round the care homes because he introduced Covid into those care homes. If I had a relative in one who died, I would be furious. This has confirmed that without doubt. To me that was the most serious of all.

Boris wanting to be injected on telly with Covid to prove it wasn't dangerous is shocking.

Boris thinking it was just a scare story.

No plan for lockdown

and so on

And more

Pretty sure a scientist/doctor did put a figure on it the other week. It’s somewhere in the region of 100,000.

It’s definitely in the tens of thousands just through inaction last winter. Most of those deaths were preventable if we’d not fucked up. I’d be quite surprise if any of the data people DC says he was asking advice for haven’t modelled what an earlier lockdown in autumn would have meant in terms of deaths.