EU/AZ Court case

[3asAbird]

The 1st Court case is tommorow wed 26th May and should have outcome by end of June.

However the EU logged a 2nd Court case seeing financial compensation as guess they spent more money buying 2nd dose pfizer at higher price.
The 2nd Court case won't be until late September.

AZ saying very little. Be interesting see how this pans out.
Hope it means a better relationship between eu and uk going forward.
It will settle the endless speculation and political tit for tat having a legal judgement.
EU still want AZ vaccines immediately.
But without INDIA exporting I don't know how az Sweden can magic up such large numbers.

www.reuters.com/world/europe/new-eu-legal-case-against-astrazeneca-over-vaccine-supplies-gets-underway-2021-05-11/

indianexpress.com/article/explained/explained-why-has-the-eu-initiated-legal-action-against-astrazeneca-7291254/

Az chief said uk always had priority

www.politico.eu/article/astrazeneca-pascal-soriot-uk-priority-access-coronavirus-vaccine/

Bangladesh have made a request to uk and USA for az doses so they can 2nd dose vaccinate as any supplies from India halted.

No idea whats happening with Australia and AZ as was meant to be made there.
But we know supplied fro Europe 250k were seized from Italy by the the EU.
But AZ uk have shipped quietly to Australia.

We know despite EU claiming export ban the UK has sent pfizer components and the USA has either sent vaccines or raw materials to AZ EU sites so reprocity does exist between UK/ USA I some form so EU saying we hoarding stuff and blocking is simply not true.

If some EU countries not using AZ under 50s I wonder how much EU think they needs surely not their original order.
Seems Johnson and Johnson is being rolled out in the EU despite maybe sharing same risks as AZ.

I also don't know how AZ could magic up numbers but it isn't right that they aren't supplying second doses when as a manufacturer they consider two doses to be a complete vaccination cycle. It is forcing huge swathes of people to be guinea pigs.

I now have to have Pfizer as my second dose in a couple of weeks despite having had Astrazeneca as the first back in March because there aren't enough Astrazeneca because they didn't deliver.

Perhaps my country should have kept enough vaccines back for second doses rather than try and jab as many arms as possible, but the UK didn't do that and it paid off for them.

(Johnson and Johnson is currently used only for the elderly here, and being a one dose vaccine is probably worth the additional risk too).

It isn't AZ for Bangladesh, it's Serum Institute India, who the Indian government have blocked from exporting. I think UK or US doses should absolutely go there if there is shortage in Bangladesh, though they are giving at 8 weeks so there's a bit of time in hand to sort out extra doses.

@QuentininQuarantino - if it's March then can you wait a few weeks for extra supplies? It's really unfortunate if there aren't enough doses, but if they don't exist then it's hard to know what can be done.

I can sign a disclaimer to reject Pfizer @MRex but with the caveat that they can’t specify when they’ll have the AZ dose there for me.

We have already had our 12 week gap extended to 14 or 16 weeks while we tried to wait for supplies (mine is 14 for now.. early March to mid June) and so I think it would be a bad idea to do that. Especially as there are many elderly people waiting for their second dose who mine could go to. I’ll have to have the Pfizer.

Yes there just aren’t supplies so nothing can be done but there is a lot of frustration, especially as the people it affects are key workers who were prioritized for an early vaccine to keep them safe and now are mass scale and not particularly willing guinea pigs for mixed vaccines.

@QuentininQuarantino - that is awful. U.K. should help send second doses to Europe if enough stock for second doses here. Issue is that they are still vaccination some over 40s here with 1st dose AZ and need to plan to have enough stock for 2nd dose. Due to Indian variant rising, U.K. government want to bring forward second doses to 8 week mark - if they have enough supply for all of that, they should share with EU. U.K. has had a horrendous Covid time overall so need to get the vaccination right. People in Eu forget how poor the NHS here is compared to health care in many other EU countries so vaccination is extra important here. It is not just underfunding but also lack of staff here.

That's very annoying for you, what a shame. It looks like Spain still has some 800,000 doses, though it's hard to tell now much they're short by. Is it possible to travel anywhere for a second dose?
qap.ecdc.europa.eu/public/extensions/COVID-19/vaccine-tracker.html#distribution-tab

[quote Sunnyfreezesushi]@QuentininQuarantino - that is awful. U.K. should help send second doses to Europe if enough stock for second doses here. Issue is that they are still vaccination some over 40s here with 1st dose AZ and need to plan to have enough stock for 2nd dose. Due to Indian variant rising, U.K. government want to bring forward second doses to 8 week mark - if they have enough supply for all of that, they should share with EU. U.K. has had a horrendous Covid time overall so need to get the vaccination right. People in Eu forget how poor the NHS here is compared to health care in many other EU countries so vaccination is extra important here. It is not just underfunding but also lack of staff here.[/quote]
No!
When the UK has surplus doses they should go to countries who really need it.

The EU has played silly buggers with the AZ vaccine and there will be spare doses within the EU that can moved around the EU to fix the problem.

Many EU countries are deliberately giving a different 2nd dose to AZ.

That is if the UK owns surplus doses.

For any AZ manufactured in the UK, it is up to AZ how they fulfil the contracts so if they chose to send to EU then that is a commercial decision and there should be no government interference.

Don’t agree with you one bit @Wakeupin2022 - don’t care what games EU (the institution) has played. This is about healthcare staff in other EU countries getting the same 2nd dose as the first, if they want that. EU countries should always be our closest trading partners and we have a long history with them. We need to share with them when we can - I want open borders and a friendly relationship with the closest countries. Totally hypocritical for US/UK to try and vaccinate everyone in their population and then pretend to be so good with spare doses and share those with 3rd world countries rather than our neighbours, if indeed, they do not have enough for 2nd doses.

Sunny if the EU was in a dire situation without resources to support the population In protecting themselves from Covid, or unable to provide adequate care, or not in control of their own vaccine manufacture then I would agree.

But this is not true of the EU.

Open borders so I can go to Spain this summer would be wonderful but it certainly doesn't trump the right of someone who has no access to any of the above to get a vaccine.

I was also vaccinated in March and my next dose is scheduled in July.

The EU have got another 50million AZ to be delivered by the end of June. So lots to go around.

And I suspect once AZ have supplied the UK enough for 2nd doses then the doses made in the UK will be supplied to EU as per agreement.

Correction to above! I was vaccinated in April

It’s hard to find how many are waiting for a second AZ dose in Spain but at least 4million key workers and all the age 60-69s on top of that. I don’t expect people like Wakeupin2022 to give a shit about us but with that attitude I hope they don’t expect me to provide them with “adécuate care” when they come over here for a summer holiday

@MRex I could theoretically get it in Britain but as I haven’t paid into that health system for some time I’d feel hypocritical to do so and so will take the same chances my colleagues have to.

@QuentininQuarantino - pfffft, it's only £3, if you can come here for it then do so. Bring your vaccine info with you, there are walk-ins, mobile pop-up units etc, we can help you find somewhere. I do think that it shouldn't be necessary with various EU countries having spare doses plus the extras coming next month, but sometimes you have to sort yourself out.

Quentin don't be so ridiculous. You are getting a 2nd vaccine ffs. It may not be the same as your 1st but that is the choice your country has made.

There are millions of AZ still to be used in EU and there are many millions more still to be delivered.
Many people are years from getting vaccinated.

We are incredibly fortunate in UK / EU / US.

As for my next holiday in EU - well I wish we were still in EU & had EHIC cards, but I will (as I always do) ensure I have adequate travel insurance to cover any costs.

I hope the Sept court case doesn’t mean the difference has to be paid. Find that very off given situation

Not sure what will happen with first

Thanks @MRex, that’s kind but there are so many of us in the same boat here so I’ve made peace with it. I also couldn’t afford the three PCRs and time off to quarantine!!

I don’t expect the UK to give us doses or anything but I’m fine with there being a court case because transparency is important (in both the EU and AZ decisions) especially to those of us who are affected by it.

Did the EU pay all the money ? I lost track but they had only made a partial payment... I shall have a read!

What an unpleasant comment, hope you enjoyed typing it.

[quote MRex]@QuentininQuarantino - pfffft, it's only £3, if you can come here for it then do so. Bring your vaccine info with you, there are walk-ins, mobile pop-up units etc, we can help you find somewhere. I do think that it shouldn't be necessary with various EU countries having spare doses plus the extras coming next month, but sometimes you have to sort yourself out.[/quote]
I agree with mrex if you can come over and pay and feel more comfortable paying then come here if you want az as 2nd dose.
There is a uk study trial on mix and match doses not sure what out come is .
We were told in uk a longer gap is better with az but who knows what spin they put on it. 2 doses equals greater immunity.
I assumed as Spain welcoming tourists they felt they had vaccination / covid under control however I realise med southern countries more reliant in tourism yet Germany can say no brits.
I mean if vaccines block transmission you think they welcome the brits.
But the Indian varient thrown spanner in work as UK idiot government dident control borders very well.
Husband 48 has his 1st az 2 weeks ago.
I'm 41 this year and has 1st dose pfizer last week.

One thing I do agree with in regards wakeup post.
Is the eu are ordering as one big group.
But once one member country has received vaccines it remains thier control what they do with it.
Each country put in their own order some ordered more az/ Sanofi than pfizer and they suffering now through lack supplies.
Think fair to say Austria, Ireland, Spain and some Eastern Europe countries had this problem

Yet Denmark decided won't use AZ at all and will give their supply to covax poorer countries further away.
Theres no redistribution of unused vaccines between the members states that I can see.
Denmark should have sent Spain some.

How much janson Johnson and Johnson does Europe have.
Thats the vaccine I be least exited about getting .

I think uk or USA should help bangadesh out with 2nd doses if they asked for help.
The reason why Australia got some az from az uk is because uk government is not interfering with private company or operating a export ban .

The commisions relationship with az is at alll time low I have no idea how they can meet EU demands or purpose of the 2nd lawsuit.

Spain could at least do its own deal with valneva if it comes available in the autumn.
Have Sanofi and curevac given up?

@Wakeupin2022 - you need to get a GHIC that does the same. You should still get travel insurance but the GHIC might be relied on by time policy.
www.nhs.uk/using-the-nhs/healthcare-abroad/apply-for-a-free-uk-global-health-insurance-card-ghic/?utm_campaign=transition_p4&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=seg&utm_content=ala__act75&gclid=Cj0KCQjwwLKFBhDPARIsAPzPi-Kn_5aRyei13GyXAHcRMw-WUCN1P1ypcoQTqk1V8-Mj1bqE-LQamUYaAvbbEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

I don't think it needs to get to UK vs EU, we're all in the same pandemic. Bangladesh has given 5.82m first doses, 3.97m second doses. The 2m/ week is one week of UK supply; as we got 5m doses from India it's only fair to help in coming weeks once there's excess and that can come from UK's 100m. Spain meanwhile vaccinated 16.71m and 8.13 m second doses; with the ones from other suppliers taken off they can again only be short by a couple of million maximum and AZ will surely start EU supplies from UK facilities within June anyway. UK doesn't need to directly give doses to just Spain any more than it is giving to Ireland, there are already EU orders for AZ. UK could defer tens of millions of UK doses that will end up with Covax to let EU get more supplies from the UK manufacturing facilities first, but Covax delays are so extreme that there should really be evidence that those signed up to the EU procurement scheme have first shared any that aren't being used.

Who me? It was a question...

if you meant Marash, then yes, it would be really unpleasant to sue for monies in this circumstance. The AZ set up was intended to be humanitarian, starting from a base of zero factories etc. They would get their benefits over the much longer term. This will prevent anything similar humanitarian project in future.

Then again I might hope they do, as it would be interesting to see exactly how much each country and organisation paid for development and then for doses - I'd be interested to see that for all of the vaccines being sold across the world!

Was it me? ;

I didn’t mean it harshly but agree with Curious reasons

Quentin I understand you are concerned that you will not get 2nd AZ dose and I hope that gets reconciled. It sounds as if it's the handling of the rollout in the country you are in that is the issue.

Someone said that they wished any surplus UK doses get sent to EU. I disagree with that. Not because I hate the EU and the people in it (I absolutely don't) but because I think there are other countries where the need is greater.

Call me nasty, call me unpleasant, whatever if it makes you happy. But I still think the EU is in an excellent position, just like the UK. And others places do not have adequate resources to fight the virus.

I find health care workers in an EU country not getting a second dose of the same vaccine due to shortages shocking. Has Spain appealed to the EU? Do any other EU countries have surplus like Germany? Or are they all just hoarding to vaccinate their population as quickly as possible. Politicians want to be re-elected and sharing with other countries might not get them a popular vote, even if it is morally the right thing to do.
Anyway, Germany have put the UK on the shit list. You cannot even enter Switzerland anymore, Brexit is definitely affecting UK travel this summer. If I were Spain, I would only welcome fully vaccinated UK tourists (with under 18s perhaps with a lateral flow test) and proof of healthcare to be provided on demand or fine.

@Wakeupin2022 - yes of course there are lots of deserving countries for surplus vaccine but we all know that the vaccine ends up in the hands of the rich there/politicians, not the most in need. So might as well share with our doctor and nurse friends in Spain! At least we know it will go into the right hands there.

@QuentininQuarantino

Thanks *@MRex*, that’s kind but there are so many of us in the same boat here so I’ve made peace with it. I also couldn’t afford the three PCRs and time off to quarantine!!

I don’t expect the UK to give us doses or anything but I’m fine with there being a court case because transparency is important (in both the EU and AZ decisions) especially to those of us who are affected by it.

Well, hopefully it'll go well, the quarantine time is all a bit much. Sounds like there are more mild side effects from the mixed regime, but who knows it could be better immunity and leave you feeling pleased you did it.

This is the September hearing info: news.trust.org/item/20210511095423-q9and.