EU/AZ Court case

[3asAbird]

The 1st Court case is tommorow wed 26th May and should have outcome by end of June.

However the EU logged a 2nd Court case seeing financial compensation as guess they spent more money buying 2nd dose pfizer at higher price.
The 2nd Court case won't be until late September.

AZ saying very little. Be interesting see how this pans out.
Hope it means a better relationship between eu and uk going forward.
It will settle the endless speculation and political tit for tat having a legal judgement.
EU still want AZ vaccines immediately.
But without INDIA exporting I don't know how az Sweden can magic up such large numbers.

www.reuters.com/world/europe/new-eu-legal-case-against-astrazeneca-over-vaccine-supplies-gets-underway-2021-05-11/

indianexpress.com/article/explained/explained-why-has-the-eu-initiated-legal-action-against-astrazeneca-7291254/

Az chief said uk always had priority

www.politico.eu/article/astrazeneca-pascal-soriot-uk-priority-access-coronavirus-vaccine/

Bangladesh have made a request to uk and USA for az doses so they can 2nd dose vaccinate as any supplies from India halted.

No idea whats happening with Australia and AZ as was meant to be made there.
But we know supplied fro Europe 250k were seized from Italy by the the EU.
But AZ uk have shipped quietly to Australia.

We know despite EU claiming export ban the UK has sent pfizer components and the USA has either sent vaccines or raw materials to AZ EU sites so reprocity does exist between UK/ USA I some form so EU saying we hoarding stuff and blocking is simply not true.

If some EU countries not using AZ under 50s I wonder how much EU think they needs surely not their original order.
Seems Johnson and Johnson is being rolled out in the EU despite maybe sharing same risks as AZ.

@QuentininQuarantino it sounds like you're in a difficult position. I'm sorry.

I'm looking forward to seeing how the legal arguments progress from both sides tomorrow. The second case sheds some light on the restitution which the EU are seeking. It never made sense to me that this was - as was claimed - about securing more doses, as I did not see how legal action could make that happen.

Interesting times.

Thanks, @HilaryThorpe. I still can’t find anything that talks about duration of immunity from natural infection definitely lasting more than 8 months, though. It’s not as if they did any blood tests on my friend immediately before her Pfizer jab to see what her residual immunity might be 14 months post-infection, nor have they asked to test her blood to see her immune response afterwards. So, how can they be so confident this is a good idea in France, but they are not taking this approach in the UK? Are other countries following the French approach on this, however long ago and however mild the covid infection?

@HilaryThorpe

The take-up isn't low in France MRex. Where did you get that from? It isn't as high as the UK but the target of 30m is on track to be achieved two weeks early. Do you look at this site? covidtracker.fr/ The UK media are a completely unreliable source. They have no clue.

This says only 23.09m first doses for France and they've said it's being opened to all ages soon, so it looks like a really low level of take-up. Even 30m people would be under 50% of the population, that's nowhere near enough for herd immunity. ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

@Walkaround

Thanks, *@HilaryThorpe*. I still can’t find anything that talks about duration of immunity from natural infection definitely lasting more than 8 months, though. It’s not as if they did any blood tests on my friend immediately before her Pfizer jab to see what her residual immunity might be 14 months post-infection, nor have they asked to test her blood to see her immune response afterwards. So, how can they be so confident this is a good idea in France, but they are not taking this approach in the UK? Are other countries following the French approach on this, however long ago and however mild the covid infection?

Its is odd and not sure totally correct im not scientific.

Would the different varieties sequences decrease immunity.
Theres been many cases of reinfections.
Do scientists feel 2 vaccines potentially better chances blocking transmission as well as getting covid infection.
Surely uk would have excellent immunity as so many had covid its not a risk uk would take.
They don't really know how long immunity lasts and its possible covid be annual like flu.

Good to see France act on vaccine skeptics

www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/france-blasts-pathetic-attempts-discredit-pfizer-vaccine-online-2021-05-25/?taid=60ad60a234e77e00018ab923&utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

The bit about Russian/ Chinese trying smear western covid vaccines is an interesting angle.

At the start before any country was using vaccines the UK formed a vaccine task force. They studied the vaccines in trials and then contacted those that they thought they were the best. We made deals and paid for them.

Every country in the EU could have done this. So to complain that the UK is hoarding is not true. They've planned poorly and want somebody to blame.

However uptake in the U.S is poor with few states even reaching 50% of ppl wanting to get their vaccines. So they do have surplus.

Someone said that Denmark are giving their AZ supplies to Covax and not other EU member states. They may be doing that too, but in the meantime are 'lending' quarter of their AZ to neighbouring German state of Schleswig-Holstein. This will be to their benefit as the border populations of each country will be moving over and back across the border. It keeps them safe too.

www.thelocal.de/20210421/denmark-lends-germany-55000-astrazeneca-vaccine-doses/

Also says her that they are in discussion with other countries to swap their AZ pile for other vaccines (like Pfizer and Moderna) which they will use. They don't say what other countries.

www.thelocal.dk/20210420/denmark-in-dialogue-over-swap-for-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccines/

It is from 20th April, though.

But they did torvean. The EU ordered more AstraZeneca than Sanofi, for example. The main difference was that AZ didn’t meet the EU order, for whatever reason. And they’re on track to meet their originally set targets of 70% by august, many countries are ahead of that.

There was a tricky start in January/February and it’s like nobody has read a newspaper since then!

Well on rereading your post, to clarify, the EU did that rather than the individual countries. A lot of smaller countries could have done but wouldn’t have had the purchasing power if they hadn’t gone through the EU, and I expect the real fear was being months behind the big eu countries but part of Schengen.

Quentin hope you get your az. My Spanish friends (3 from Catalonia and 1 from Andalucía) are In the same position as you. However, they have been told they’ll get their az

My mum on the other side (61) lives in the same area as you and I keep reading that she might not get her second az. I think urkullu is playing politics again, I don’t understand why they didn’t have their second doses warranted before stopping the deal with az. Thought they’d still get the 300m doses but not the 100m. That should have been enough for second doses. Everyone I know wants their az second dose. They don’t want to mix , specially after the crap research Spain has done on mixing vaccines (a research of 600 people in a month)

Oh really @EasterIssland ? I’m not sure what to do. They say if you refuse pfizer you go in a queue with no guarantee or ideas as to timescale so it’s not the best decision! I also worry that the uk won’t let me in if I’m only half vaccinated and I’m supposed to be running a charity half marathon there late summer. I’ll do a poll at work to see what people are going to do. Urkullu’s been a pain throughout. I know the Spanish trial was only 600 people but someone on here said that the Oxford one was only 125 people, and both trials found in favour of their own, opposing preferred outcomes, so it’s an absolute joke all round. I’m basically just another phase of a mixing trial! Ondo pasa x

Afaik the British one was 1k
This is from the beginning and it was 800 and I know that they asked for more people after

www.gov.uk/government/news/world-first-covid-19-alternating-dose-vaccine-study-launches-in-uk

Ps this is nothing to do with the story but have you read anything about this? As this would affect you? I am exhausted of problems :(
infototal.es/confirmado-a-los-britanicos-se-les-podria-solicitar-una-carta-oficial-de-invitacion-si-visitan-a-amigos-y-familiares-en-espana/

Most COVAX doses have been AZ, very few are Pfizer. Many EU countries have fulfilled their COVAX quota using the AZ as it is only charged at cost price.

[quote EasterIssland]Afaik the British one was 1k
This is from the beginning and it was 800 and I know that they asked for more people after

www.gov.uk/government/news/world-first-covid-19-alternating-dose-vaccine-study-launches-in-uk

Ps this is nothing to do with the story but have you read anything about this? As this would affect you? I am exhausted of problems :(
infototal.es/confirmado-a-los-britanicos-se-les-podria-solicitar-una-carta-oficial-de-invitacion-si-visitan-a-amigos-y-familiares-en-espana/[/quote]
@EasterIssland - your 2nd link looks remarkably like a similar story that went around France (not that I can read Spanish, but I think I get the gist!). The final conclusion was that it was not what would happen, and if you are coming from a country that does not require a holiday visa, like the UK, you would not be expected to go through the rigmarole of needing a letter of invitation and paying €30 (the French price) to register at a town hall, or whatever it was being claimed British visitors would have to do if staying with friends and family. Apparently some town halls had been surprised by people nevertheless doing that, but they didn’t need to!

Thanks walkaround. My anxiety regarding this travel is quite high.

Sorry for the derail

@EasterIssland - that’s OK. All the uncertainty around travel post-Brexit and mid-pandemic is enough to make anyone anxious!

Sorry walkaround but we have no official decision about the Attestation d'Acceuil yet. One English language newspaper (which is not always accurate) has reported that, but nothing has been confirmed by the authorities yet. We are really hoping it is true.

@HilaryThorpe - I read a French language one, not an English language one. And as I said, the final conclusion was that it would not happen, not that it was not unclear. Given the number of people that would be pestering town halls, I am fairly confident it is a pile of steaming shite that will be clarified, unless France is in a mood to irritate and alienate English people who have such a good relationship with France that their friends and family live there, which doesn’t really make sense, unless wanting to play tit for tat silly buggers for no good reason.

In the meantime, not all town halls that have been approached have felt this is necessary or desirable.

That is great Walkaround - could you link please? There is no update on the Embassy sites or on RIFT, so will be really interested to see the source. Some Mairies will no doubt say not needed, but it is border control we will need to convince. Third country nationality such a pain.

@HilaryThorpe - Gah. Friend had sent a photo of the French article and I can’t find a trace of it online - only English language reporting, as you say. Mind you, I have found this rather good Which article, which will be reassuring for @EasterIssland with respect to Spain, but does still make expectations in France sound uncertain! Very annoying, as half of my family and several friends live in various different parts of France!
www.which.co.uk/news/2021/05/government-warns-of-new-travel-rules-when-staying-with-friends-and-family-in-spain-or-france/

Will update when I find something Walkabout. 😊 The thought of children and grandchildren not being able to visit spontaneously is very hard.

Thanks, @HilaryThorpe. It has been tough not being able to see family for so long 😟. For my elderly parents, not being able to go over to visit their children without jumping through time consuming hoops first would be too much for them!

There is a lot of politics around which vaccine etc etc etc