EU/AZ Court case

[3asAbird]

The 1st Court case is tommorow wed 26th May and should have outcome by end of June.

However the EU logged a 2nd Court case seeing financial compensation as guess they spent more money buying 2nd dose pfizer at higher price.
The 2nd Court case won't be until late September.

AZ saying very little. Be interesting see how this pans out.
Hope it means a better relationship between eu and uk going forward.
It will settle the endless speculation and political tit for tat having a legal judgement.
EU still want AZ vaccines immediately.
But without INDIA exporting I don't know how az Sweden can magic up such large numbers.

www.reuters.com/world/europe/new-eu-legal-case-against-astrazeneca-over-vaccine-supplies-gets-underway-2021-05-11/

indianexpress.com/article/explained/explained-why-has-the-eu-initiated-legal-action-against-astrazeneca-7291254/

Az chief said uk always had priority

www.politico.eu/article/astrazeneca-pascal-soriot-uk-priority-access-coronavirus-vaccine/

Bangladesh have made a request to uk and USA for az doses so they can 2nd dose vaccinate as any supplies from India halted.

No idea whats happening with Australia and AZ as was meant to be made there.
But we know supplied fro Europe 250k were seized from Italy by the the EU.
But AZ uk have shipped quietly to Australia.

We know despite EU claiming export ban the UK has sent pfizer components and the USA has either sent vaccines or raw materials to AZ EU sites so reprocity does exist between UK/ USA I some form so EU saying we hoarding stuff and blocking is simply not true.

If some EU countries not using AZ under 50s I wonder how much EU think they needs surely not their original order.
Seems Johnson and Johnson is being rolled out in the EU despite maybe sharing same risks as AZ.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/26/eu-seeks-court-order-for-astrazeneca-to-supply-vaccine-doses

Wow Eu want €10 for every AZ delayed vaccine 😲

apnews.com/article/europe-coronavirus-vaccine-coronavirus-pandemic-health-business-61c0fcd4d87fc3ac81a74ebd7b0e2f7f

It’ll be interesting to see what the ruling is.

[quote Baileysforchristmas]www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/26/eu-seeks-court-order-for-astrazeneca-to-supply-vaccine-doses[/quote]
That article is odd. How can France / Germany have lots az to donate to covax but not send any to say Austria, Lithuania or Spain.
Why Denmark loaned Germany az if they have some spare?

Interesting under Belgian law the agreement they said they can't sue is null and void.
I think az were very honest in jan with eu that would undeliver thats when they decided create havoc in Ireland and was all over press so weird they dident realise until March
They can order however many doses they want but can az possible deliver.
As got impression prior India being bad some az was sent to EU from India.
Once again uk dragged into it.
As we should have sent them vaccines.

@Baileysforchristmas

Wow Eu want €10 for every AZ delayed vaccine 😲

apnews.com/article/europe-coronavirus-vaccine-coronavirus-pandemic-health-business-61c0fcd4d87fc3ac81a74ebd7b0e2f7f

It’ll be interesting to see what the ruling is.

Thats clearly the restitution they seek i truly belive that double what they paid. As az demand is limited due to age restrictions and lack of conference in some countries. I think they now paying double for phizer per shot on any increased orders.

Well, Germany have Lander. So, Denmark 'loaned' something like 50, 000 AZ doses specifically to Schleswig-Holstein which is the Lander at it's border.

I don't know how self governing the Federal Lander in Germany are?

Did the EU fund the UK sites? That seems to be the big issue here. Should they have had some of the vaccines from the UK?

@Baileysforchristmas

Wow Eu want €10 for every AZ delayed vaccine 😲

apnews.com/article/europe-coronavirus-vaccine-coronavirus-pandemic-health-business-61c0fcd4d87fc3ac81a74ebd7b0e2f7f

It’ll be interesting to see what the ruling is.

More than that. It’s 10EU per dose per day of delay, plus a massive fine.

We will never see a company produce a not for profit vaccine again.

Yes you’re right it’s huge. Where have the EU pulled these numbers from? This will take years though as there will be appeal after appeal. Not only that, the UK doesn’t produce big numbers so even if they had taken the whole of the Uk vaccine supply AZ still wouldn’t have fulfilled EU’s order on time 🤷‍♀️

How can a contract financial penalty possibly exceed the costs of the contract without having been specified up-front for insurance indemnities to be taken out? I've always looked for every liability clause to be capped. Might have to find that contract again, has anyone re-read the indemnity section?

I wish I knew a Belgian lawyer.

@MRex

How can a contract financial penalty possibly exceed the costs of the contract without having been specified up-front for insurance indemnities to be taken out? I've always looked for every liability clause to be capped. Might have to find that contract again, has anyone re-read the indemnity section?

I wish I knew a Belgian lawyer.

Yes me too.

What I'm wondering is if az lawyers knew the contract was governed by Belgian law that the clause not to have any penalty for non delivery ie eu could sue is null and void.
I suppose media so busy with Cummings they not following the court case as thought az were giving evidence this afternoon.

Even the eu stated recently in tit for tat whats name of annoying vaccine guy French saying uk is small time player in pharmaceutical market.
If we sent everything uk produced to eu ut still wouldn't have fulfilled thier orders.
However the one caveat is how much uk sites produce is bit hush hush we don't know for sure.

Also surely fact they 2 separate legal entities az uk/ az Sweden comes into play here.
The only thing that dragged uk into eu contract part of it mentions uk sites but I think was these sites could be used once uk order is fulfilled.
I still want to know if they reimbursing uk 21 million we invested in Netherlands site then blocked exports.

I bet AZ are regretting offering it at cost price, may as well have charged more and turned a nice little profit like Pfizer (aware they will eventually charge more except to developing countries where it will remain cost price).

We will never see a company produce a not for profit vaccine again.

It's sad isn't it, really fucking sad.

I agree re last few posts and I find the suing for price difference incredibly depressing

Does it not occur to them the actual price could have been that high to start with if it hadn’t been for vision of people with enormous expertise and conscience

Has anyone seen any info on how they have justified to the court the 10EU/dose/day? I'm looking for a detailed summary of the legal arguements and have yet to find it.

The law I know is English, and is medicolegal and regulatory law, which are clearly very different. But it seems difficult on the face of it to see how the EU could bring a suit for a greater sum than their actual losses. Surely their actual losses (even if you accept that Az have not fulfilled their contract) is the original purchase cost of the doses which have not been supplied. To put it another way, if I buy a second hand micra for £500 and you don't supply it, I can't sue you for the cost of a new audi. Alas!

It is all, on the face of it, extremely odd.

I know its just for the benefit of the court, but my reading of the EU argument is that every single dose manufactured in the UK should have been supplied to them.

Astounding........

To answer my own question, there's a little more information at www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/didnt-even-try-eu-lawyer-accuses-astrazeneca-contract-breach-2021-05-26/

The EU are seeking 200 million euros/day from 1st July plus an additional 10 million euros per contract breach. That will very rapidly escalate to much more than the original contract value.

The EU are seeking 200 million euros/day from 1st July plus an additional 10 million euros per contract breach. That will very rapidly escalate to much more than the original contract value.

They are aiming to bankrupt AZ I think.

OK that's fine if that'd what you need to do. But what about developing countries who need vaccine?

Destroy the UK company (yes I know its Swedish too) and let EU companies snap up the leftovers.........

The EU knew the UK were to be supplied first, there is no way AZ would’ve gone into the contract without telling the EU this up front but someone forgot to UVDL. This is more to do with the UK and EU’s relationship
going sour and AZ have got stuck in the middle of it.

AstraZeneca's lawyer said the British factories were mentioned in the EU contract for information, but there was no commitment to use them. They were expected to produce vaccines solely for Britain until February 2021, when the company expected to deliver 100 million doses to London. It has not yet completed its deliveries to Britain.

He said the company had informed the EU last summer that the UK-based factories making the vaccine were to be used exclusively to supply Britain as part of its contract with the government there.

If the reuters article is correct, then the EU's case in a nutshell I think is that AZ were in breach of the best reasonable efforts principle "because the drugmaker had not delivered to the bloc 50 million doses produced in factories that are listed in the contract as suppliers to the EU, including 39 million doses manufactured in Britain, 10 million produced in the United States and 1 million in the Netherlands."

@Wakeupin2022 my reading is in accord with your own - that the EU case is in essence that every single dose, manufactured anywhere in the world, should have been supplied to the EU.

Does anyone know if today's hearing is it, or if it will be running over a number of days? I'm aware that the judgement is not anticipated for a few weeks yet.

There's another hearing on 4th June

@Wakeupin2022

Destroy the UK company (yes I know its Swedish too) and let EU companies snap up the leftovers.........

Astrazeneca AB is a subsidiary of Astrazeneca plc. Part of the purpose of subsidiaries could be considered as being to limit losses to that subsidiary. I don't know how a Belgian court could find that there isn't a limitation of liability to a subsidiary, but again - I know nothing about Belgian law.

@MRex thank you.

Its confusing the 2 separate entities. Claiming the entire amount of az could produce would be unreasonable request surely. Az initially wanted to set up separate supply chains and production all over the world on every continent.
Why do the eu partners yet off lightly as they were integral part of production as don't think az previously made vaccines its a new market for them.

They have logged 2 separate cases so think June 4th case 2 and outcome sept.
Todays case judgement meant be due by end of June.

Does anyone really think it’s reasonable for the EU to take all the vaccines from the UK when the UK funded most of the development, trials and setting up the UK sites? Especially when the UK was hit hardest by the pandemic and had the largest number of deaths in Europe?