Take the vaccine or not

[crazemaze]

I have been invited to have my vaccine 2 months earlier than I should have been called.

However, I am feeling very conflicted and stuck on my decision to take it or not. I am a young female in her mid 20's and one side I am like do I want to inject something that is not fully tested and long term effects are not known , and the other side I am like everyone is taking it and I should take it also.

Give your views pls

@ajmouse

Take it to protect others. No vaccine is 100% and some modelling shows that if the Indian variant is 40% or 50% more transmissible then hospitals still get overwhelmed regardless of the vaccine due to the sheer numbers. If it's lower then great but it could be borderline so basically, the fewer people spreading the virus the better chance we all have of getting out of this mess in June as planned.

You don't have to worry about blood clots as you wouldn't get AZ at that age.

In terms of "long term effects" there isn't really such a thing. The vaccine itself only stays in your body for a short time (a few weeks IIRC) and trains your immune system to recognise the virus. Then it's gone. All your body is doing is learning - there's nothing to get a long term effect from. There can be rare short term effects like blood clotting that we would've spotted in those first few weeks and... indeed we did. It was a tiny risk but you get an alternative anyway.

The vaccines alters the innate immune response to other viruses and bacteria after injection - www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.03.21256520v1 This could be an issue regarding ADE in the future so no it does not just 'go away' as you are suggesting

How many people have had Covid vaccines in the UK? The answer is well over 37m have had at least one dose, and nearly 22m have had the second as well.

How many people have had Covid in the UK? There have been 4.5 million positive tests, but the real number is much higher.... 10 million? 15 million? We don’t know for sure, it’s pretty sure that there are now many more people who have had a vaccine than had the disease.

How many people have died from Covid, or are suffering ongoing health issues because of it? Over a hundred thousand deaths, and several hundred thousands suffering long term effects.

How many people have suffered or died from having the vaccine, excluding the well-known temporary side effects of sore arms, headache etc? A few tens - proportionately speaking, a handful.

Conclusion: Have the jab, it is by far the safer option.

Your risk of being seriously ill or dying from Covid is extremely low, but long Covid is a significant risk to you. Taking the jab is the lower risk for you.

You would also be less likely to pass it on, and that helps everyone else as well, and supports the reopening of the economy.

@MRex

We're in the UK, so the CDC's behaviour isn't relevant and the UK is absolutely tracking all infections whether vaccinated or not. Your nonsense might play better to the US market *@Lala134*, better to try that?

what is nonsense? and play what at a USA market? I am a adult living in the UK with no agenda but skeptisism at the govenrment, SAGE and other scientists and journals who have lied throughout the entire pandemic -the lancet paying to fake a study, the fact that SAGE and the UK gov let the virus freely in despite being told in febuary by china that it has a 15% hspitalisation rate, 5%ICU rate and 1% fatality rate, they were ok trying out herd immunity with those statistics, and let the virus come in, they told peple to not wear masks during a respiratory pandemic, ignored scientists who warned them it was likely to be airborne judging by the infections onboard the japanese cruise ship and the previous SARS pandemic, they put covid positive patients into care homes and now suddently they want to save my life with these vaccines? Have you ever read about Pfizer and 'asbestos in baby powder' johnson and johnson? lol

The vaccines alters the innate immune response to other viruses and bacteria after injection - www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.03.21256520v1
This could be an issue regarding ADE in the future so no it does not just 'go away' as you are suggesting

I pretty much guarantee that you have no idea what that pre-print is talking about, so I don't know why you're brandishing it at me as some kind of antivax evidence and acting like an expert.

I will listen to qualified people like this twitter.com/sailorrooscout over a random forum antivaxer

the fact that SAGE and the UK gov let the virus freely in despite being told in febuary by china that it has a 15% hspitalisation rate, 5%ICU rate and 1% fatality rate, they were ok trying out herd immunity with those statistics, and let the virus come in, they told peple to not wear masks during a respiratory pandemic, ignored scientists who warned them it was likely to be airborne judging by the infections onboard the japanese cruise ship and the previous SARS pandemic, they put covid positive patients into care homes and now suddently they want to save my life with these vaccines?
@Lala134

the government are morons, they made many many mistakes and ignored scientific guidance but are now finally starting to learn from it

it is the very definition of cutting off your nose to spite to your face to refuse a vaccine on that basis

Only you can decide on this OP, it's your body.
If I were in my 20s, absolutely no way I would be having it given the risk profile to covid of people in their 20s.

@savethegrannies

Only you can decide on this OP, it's your body. If I were in my 20s, absolutely no way I would be having it given the risk profile to covid of people in their 20s.

It's not death that people are concerned about. It's long covid too, and we don't know the long-term effects of the virus as it is so new. Who knows what future damage covid could do to young people, heart damage? Nerve damage?

Who knows what future damage Covid could do to young people, heart damage? Nerve damage?
Pure conjecture. If I were to start suggesting things the vaccines COULD cause, posters would be on me like a flash.

@savethegrannies

Who knows what future damage Covid could do to young people, heart damage? Nerve damage? Pure conjecture. If I were to start suggesting things the vaccines COULD cause, posters would be on me like a flash.

Well then, why not have the vaccine?

@savethegrannies

Who knows what future damage Covid could do to young people, heart damage? Nerve damage? Pure conjecture. If I were to start suggesting things the vaccines COULD cause, posters would be on me like a flash.

And I'm aware it's conjecture - I said who knows? We don't know. It's a new virus. There is still a risk to young people that outweighs any potential risks of the mRNA vaccines.

Pure conjecture. If I were to start suggesting things the vaccines COULD cause, posters would be on me like a flash.

@savethegrannies

I believe it is the making untrue statements regarding vaccine safety that posters take issue with, rather than a sensible discussion regarding things that could happen, backed by robust science

There is sadly real world evidence of the damage that coronavirus infection can do to the CNS, heart and lungs. I haven't seen any robust evidence of this for vaccination.

@riveted1

Pure conjecture. If I were to start suggesting things the vaccines COULD cause, posters would be on me like a flash.

@savethegrannies

I believe it is the making untrue statements regarding vaccine safety that posters take issue with, rather than a sensible discussion regarding things that could happen, backed by robust science

There is sadly real world evidence of the damage that coronavirus infection can do to the CNS, heart and lungs. I haven't seen any robust evidence of this for vaccination.

Yes exactly. I would be concerned about the effects of covid, no matter what age. I can't imagine how awful it must be to be in the prime of your life, and unable to work or even climb the stairs when struck by long covid. So grateful to have had both my vaccines.

@riveted1

Pure conjecture. If I were to start suggesting things the vaccines COULD cause, posters would be on me like a flash.

@savethegrannies

I believe it is the making untrue statements regarding vaccine safety that posters take issue with, rather than a sensible discussion regarding things that could happen, backed by robust science

There is sadly real world evidence of the damage that coronavirus infection can do to the CNS, heart and lungs. I haven't seen any robust evidence of this for vaccination.

Why not have the vaccine User72642? My own concern is around some of the side effects and that people have died after it. Fairly basic stuff really. If I were the OP, I would look on some of the vaccine, side effect threads on MN - there are plenty - as well as doing some research. As I say, only the OP can decide. I think it is very wrong and unethical for people on here to try convince here either way, actually.

• Why not have the vaccine User72642? My own concern is around some of the side effects and that people have died after it. Fairly basic stuff really. If I were the OP, I would look on some of the vaccine, side effect threads on MN - there are plenty - as well as doing some research. As I say, only the OP can decide. I think it is very wrong and unethical for people on here to try convince here either way, actually.* Yes exactly, the amount of deaths due to covid is substantially higher than that of the vaccine - millions higher in fact. If death was my main concern I would be fighting tooth and nail to get that vaccine in my arm. And side effects - as you mention - covid has produced some absolutely horrendous side effects in all age groups. When comparing the effects of covid versus the effects of the vaccine. It's absolutely clear the vaccine should be taken.

As you say, very basic stuff. Thanks!

Suspicious of what being anxious and feeling entitled to have an opinion on a vaccine that has come out very quick

Covid was quicker.

I’m glad you’re young 20 something, do you only mix with young healthy people?

In the hundred plus years of vaccines, I can't think of a single one where there has been any evidence of long term health implications. Any rare but serious side effects that occasionally become clear only when a vaccine is used in millions of people are always ones that happen within a very short time of being vacciinated

Since millions if.not billions of people have been vaccinated (since January ) across the world it is clear how unlikely any serious side effects of the vaccines are. i.e very very very unlikely for all of them , even the AZ one .

Since you are young I imagine you can choose not to have the AZ one and have another instead. Other than that your fears really are unfounded.

I know it is considered bad form on here to criticize the ' individual choice ' to have the Covid vaccine and I absolutely think it is your choice but that doesn't negate the fact that your fears about having it are pretty unreasonable and based on emotions and fears rather than any evidence .

The problem with that.is that decisions based on personal fears and emotions rather than on external context and evidence are often bad decisions.

On the basis of that I think a reasonable decision for someone your age ( assuming you have no relevant health conditions) is to.have the vaccine but to avoid the AZ if you are very worried.

Legally it's the individual choice. But people are still free to criticise. I think it's a pretty sad reflection on society that the only question being asked is "what's in it for me". Under 40 or so, not a lot, most of us would have a mild or asymptomatic illness, though you do throw the dice a little in terms of long Covid, but it's rare-ish and you wouldn't die. But that's not the point - it's that you can still pass it on to older people who either can't have the jab due to allergies etc or are one of the 5-10% who would still end up in hospital even with the vaccine. In other words it's about caring about other people and helping us all to get back to normal. Not just yourself.

@crazemaze

Vaccines take years to come out and years of testing, and this one has come out in a year. Pardon my worries.

It was simply to hear peoples views on it, but its people who attack others that just make you question it all. Its full on control from the government to not even be allowed to potentially travel without the vaccine. It just feels like humans are the trial of this vaccine and everything is being tested on us.

I have done a lot of reading and long term effects are still unknown and no I am not talking about a sore arm. I just have worries like a lot of people and its my right to feel this way, I am not going to follow a trend because everyone says so! Were not lab rats that's all.

None of these vaccines have come out in a year. They have been working on a vaccine for a Corona type illness for around 10 years. Any vaccines used have to pass the same regulatory tests as other vaccines .

I was part of a vaccine trial. I've had a vaccine in my body since October. I'm perfectly fine. Nobody who has been vaccinated has been vaccinated gas been hospitalised or died. This study has taken place over 4 continents.

You're in your 20s. You will get Pfizer or Moderna. Having a vaccine won't put limitations on your life.
Not having a vaccine will.

It has been tested.

In normal circumstances a company needs to identify a consumer / use for a medicine. Then complete feasibility with lab experiments before moving onto scale up and collecting stability data. At that point you start CTA (clinical trial application) and there’s various stages with independent review and the MHRA will go back and forth reviewing data / asking for extra data. Ethics approval can also take a while and getting funding within a company for millions of pounds can take a while. Once the clinical starts then data needs to be reviewed and written into a dossier. A full dossier which can be thousands of pages is pulled together and has everything in it from where ingredients are sourced, the ingredients used, test methods, analytical data, medical data, clinical data etc and this is submitted to the MHRA for a licence. If you look up eCTD that’s the dossier submitted. The MHRA can take a year or two to grant a licence and again they review the whole data package with back and forth asking / answering questions.

Basically what they did with the pandemic was instead of having a team of 4 in R&D for example they pulled multiple people into this so they could write and submit dossiers and CTA quicker. It’s not been any less tested than a new vaccine on market 10 years ago but the companies and MHRA dropped everything else to prioritise this vaccine.

I don’t work for the companies that make the vaccine but I do work in the pharma industry. Happy to answer any questions....if I can.

I hope that puts your mind at ease about it not being testing correctly or rushed

@savethegrannies

Only you can decide on this OP, it's your body. If I were in my 20s, absolutely no way I would be having it given the risk profile to covid of people in their 20s.

I'm old enough to be the OP's mum. I'm not CEV. My chance of succumbing to CV is 0.0004%. I won't be having the experimental injection. I'm staying in the control group. My body. My choice. I'm not going to tell the OP what to do. Her body, her choice too.

Your reasons to get the vaccine were "the other side I am like everyone is taking it and I should take it also". For me that wouldn't be a good enough reason to take any medication, let alone a new form of vaccine technology that's never been in mass circulation before, but pressure to take it is intense and that reason won't be unusual. I know a few people who had the vaccine despite not having any care at all about getting Covid, so they could go on holiday or because they thought they weren't allowed to say no.

@crazemaze

Vaccines take years to come out and years of testing, and this one has come out in a year. Pardon my worries.

It was simply to hear peoples views on it, but its people who attack others that just make you question it all. Its full on control from the government to not even be allowed to potentially travel without the vaccine. It just feels like humans are the trial of this vaccine and everything is being tested on us.

I have done a lot of reading and long term effects are still unknown and no I am not talking about a sore arm. I just have worries like a lot of people and its my right to feel this way, I am not going to follow a trend because everyone says so! Were not lab rats that's all.

So the actual reason that you’re posting is not so you can “simply hear people’s views”, it’s so that you can inflict your views on us.

If you don't want it, don't have it.

They got the vaccine out quickly because they were offered blank cheques to make it happen. The experts in vaccine development say that it normally takes years because of the time it takes to raise the money for development. It's not a case of a company allocating billions to complete the project then the scientists get cracking.

In the case of mRNA vaccines like Pfizer and Moderna, a lot of scientific development was done when the original SARS came out 10 + years ago.

The people who were in the vaccine trials still have immunity if that interests you