I refused the AZ vaccine, now being judged for it

[cosmoswithcovids]

My husband's friend is a Dr, he called yesterday to tell my DH they had spare vaccine and to come over if we wanted one (DH is 33, I'm 30).

We got there and he told us it was AZ, I said I wanted to wait until I was offered the alternative that under 40s are advised to have. My DH looked at me as though I had two heads.

We joined them for drinks at the pub last night where Dr and a couple of other friends were discussing anti-vaxers and I was referenced as one of them. I did reiterate that I'm very keen to be vaccinated but not with AZ. It was then mansplained to me that discrediting the AZ jab (which they've all had and are fiiiiiiiiiiine) was the behaviour of an anti vaxer. I was just meant to feel a bit like an uneducated idiot (I'm not, I'm a solicitor, I'm quite bright) and although my husband says he understood why I didn't want it, the risk is "theoretical" (is it?!)
For the sake of another couple of weeks, I'd rather just wait and have the one which is safer! I'm just feeling a bit rubbish about it all really, I felt quite bounced into it when we got there and it was quite a stress for me having to justify why I didn't want it once we arrived.

I think science advice against AZ is stronger than you wer saying

You think, or you have an educated opinion based on extensive reading?

So, you disagree with me on a question of emphasis? Seems more like backtracking to me.

Are you aware that the AZ vaccine was pulled out temporarily in some countries, not permanently?
Can you say which pulled it out permanently, and show it was based on solid scientific data?

It's also a strange concept that disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing to generate discussion is good, as you seem to be saying.

There's discussing and there's pulling one sentence from a long post to argue over without taking into consideration the rest of the post.

Branleuse

"The risks with AZ have been way overblown and it was clearly a political move."

Exactly this. The AZ vaccine is being offered at cost - no profit - whereas the Pfizer vaccine is expensive. The media has also been very reluctant to post any mention of deaths from the Pfizer vaccine - six in the trials and over thirty in one care home in Norway.

The only reason I would judge you, is you didn't ask before going. Therefore that vaccine has now gone to waste when it could have been used for somebody else who wouldn't refuse.
Yanbu to not want the Az though.

I think they were rude. You aren’t a Dr, or a medical expert, so it’s perfectly reasonable for you to follow the advice of the experts on this. I know they were arguing that the risks have been overblown, but still, as a non-medical person, I feel like the advice of the people with the knowledge and all the data is what I’ll follow.

"The risks with AZ have been way overblown and it was clearly a political move."

Exactly this. The AZ vaccine is being offered at cost - no profit - whereas the Pfizer vaccine is expensive.

Adding to this, there were huge supply problems with the AZ vaccine, as the orders were not being delivered to EU countries, but supply was maintained to the UK. It felt to me like the EU got an easy way to cancel orders if they wanted to.

Having said that, there is the issue of the relative risk for young adult women (vaccine vs covid) and I cannot criticise the guidelines that younger women are to be offered alternative vaccines.
But, as I wrote before, it still doesn't mean that the vaccine is particularly dangerous for younger women.

You did the right thing. I'm early 30s I wouldn't have AZ as I've already had COVID, which only caused a headache, therefore whilst I'm happy to have the vaccine for the good of society, there was clearly a bigger risk for me from the vaccine then there had been from COVID. Thankful they changed the guidance, and have had an alternative now.

Well done for standing up for yourself under difficult, pressured, circumstances.

No, you are not an anti-vaxer.

Please do not feel bad about this.💐

This sounds a bit odd. I question why life saving precious limited supply Covid vaccinations are so disappointingly mismanaged as to include wastage? Why do both vaccination teams and their patients not better coordinate the vaccination administration? It is as much the fault of the medical teams to ensure there is as little wastage as possible as perhaps fuller initial transparent information would be ideal to explain what is offered and what the potential medical risks may be to patients of different age and preexisting medical conditions. The patient at booking stage should also be allowed to make their own consideration and to be permitted to ask medical questions so that they are comfortable in the vaccination offered and as in your case have the legitimate request to an alternative vaccination at a later date should that be available. Basically this doctor should have managed your expectations better and not wrongly label you incorrectly as an anti vaxxer when you would have been vaccinated if it was the vaccine most appropriate to your medical profile with the caveat that other more medically suitable vaccines are not offered to you at a reasonable foreseeable near future and you will otherwise be subjected to short term elevated Covid risks. Doctors and associated medical professional should be encouraging vaccination and not allowing some hesitant or undecided patients (not you) to forgo vaccination all together. We have many anti vaxxers already! As an aside but important to note, seemingly only the most medically vulnerable are single or double vaccinated but a majority of the active working populations are as yet unprotected. Many of this demographic will have young children attending crowded schools with no Covid risk mitigation bringing home all usual germs and viruses. Good luck original poster and I hope you receive your preferred or more scientifically appropriate vaccination soon!

@Lweji

I think science advice against AZ is stronger than you wer saying

You think, or you have an educated opinion based on extensive reading?

So, you disagree with me on a question of emphasis? Seems more like backtracking to me.

Are you aware that the AZ vaccine was pulled out temporarily in some countries, not permanently?
Can you say which pulled it out permanently, and show it was based on solid scientific data?

It's also a strange concept that disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing to generate discussion is good, as you seem to be saying.

There's discussing and there's pulling one sentence from a long post to argue over without taking into consideration the rest of the post.

What i am saying is based on what leading scientists who are not affiliated to any political body are saying, and prrobably as much of an educated opinion based on extensive reading as your opinions!

Are you aware that the AZ vaccine was pulled out temporarily in some countries, not permanently? this is incorrect

Can you say which pulled it out permanently, and show it was based on solid scientific data? the information is freely available online but as one example (as I live there) France has pulled the vaccine for under 55s. From memory other european countries have done similar but there may be small variations in policy. Was it based on solid scientific data? I think you need to form your own judgement on that, my post didn't refer to it!

It's also a strange concept that disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing to generate discussion is good, as you seem to be saying actually I disagreed with you, fundamentally, as I explained. And you should be able to discuss misquoting. But if you can't that is ok - as you were, and I won't bother to engage further.

There's discussing and there's pulling one sentence from a long post to argue over without taking into consideration the rest of the post I have already said, I didn't pull one sentence out....

I don't think you're an anti vaxer. But I do think it's a bit precious to latch on to this tiny tiny clot risk and turn down something so incredibly important (potentially for you but definitely for the people around you) on the back of it.

The risk us know but the fear of this particular is incredibly amplified from reality. Not over or understated, amplified. It's been highlighted and discussed so much it's all some people can see rather than the full picture anymore.

*you should be able to discuss without misquoting I meant

I think if you make unpopular or questionable decisions, you have to be prepared to be judged for them. Doctors, and scientists, in particular, will judge. I judge the 2 people I know who have refused to be vaccinated (at all) as foolish and, especially now with a new variant threatening to cause a new wave, selfish.

@Missillusioned

Well locally here there are 2 vaccine streams and anyone under 40 who turns up for an AZ vaccine is turned away.

The risk of a clot from AZ is 1 in 80,000. Small, but not miniscule. At the rate of Covid at the moment, an AZ vaccine is more risky for a woman of 30 than waiting a couple of weeks for a Pfizer. This is recognized in government guidance.

And I wish people would stop going on about the pill - that's a different type of clot and not as dangerous.

I don't think you were unreasonable OP.

@lweji did you read this post, about whether or not the vaccine was pulled? Your posts to me were pretty rude, and it seems also misinformed and out of date. Pulling the AZ was not political. It was originally thought to be as it went against European guidelines, but things have moved on since then.

Joining those stressing that the AZ vaccine IS approved for under 40s, the recommendation is simply that an alternative is offered (dependent on supply).

I'm 42, had my first AZ jab 3 weeks ago at a vaccination hub, I was hoping for AZ so was pleased that's what they had. Only had a few mild side effects. Can't wait for my second in another 8 weeks! DH had AZ just before me, 18 year old DD is happy to have AZ when she becomes eligible.

With your health anxiety op, I wonder if you'd be better waiting for an appointment with your own GP so you have the opportunity to discuss any worries regarding your own medical history prior to vaccination. Or really if you're planning to book through the national site and attend a hub where there will be a variety of volunteers and it's likely to be quick questions on your medical history, onus on you to decide if you're happy to go ahead, jab in arm and go, you need to decide in advance if you're happy to accept the small risks of whatever vaccine. Don't waste any appointments or doses!

At the end of a long day, your GP friend was trying to do a good thing. You were unreasonable not to just send your DH on his own I think, it was pretty obvious the GP was expecting you'd be happy to be jabbed if you went down, then off to the pub! Wasn't expecting to have to have a discussion about AZ based on info gleaned from mainstream and social media.

There would have been an advantage re transmission of you and your DH being vaccinated at the same time as well. But it's done now and hopefully you won't have to wait too long for an alternative vaccine.

From a BBC news site 7 May
So please stop telling OP she was doing the wrong thing.
“Most adults under the age of 40 will be given an alternative to the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine due to a link with rare blood clots.
The UK's medicines safety regulator says there have been 242 clotting cases and 49 deaths, with 28.5 million doses of the vaccine administered.
But the risk is slightly higher in younger age groups.
Low levels of coronavirus cases and the availability of alternative vaccines have also informed the decision.
Prof Wei Shen Lim, from the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI), said they were putting "a high priority on safety" and he expected the move would "serve to boost confidence" in the vaccination programme.“

@cosmoswithcovids
he sounds like a bully OP, and also wildly inappropriate behaviour for a HCP

Current advice is to offer an alternative to under 40s given the balance of risks. Personally I would have taken it, but completely reasonable for you to want to follow current advice!

I suspect that these medical professionals have seen a lot of people die or be very ill with potentially life changing long term health impacts from COVID over the last year or so. I also suspect that they haven’t seen many/any deaths from vaccine side effects so I suspect they are using this as a basis to inform their opinion of your decision.
Both of you are entitled to your opinions and perhaps they were rude but it’s not a massive reach to understand where they are coming from.
It was a reasonable possibility you might have been offered AZ so you should have checked in advance or if you felt so certain about only accepting Pfizer you you should have declined and told them you would prefer to wait for your official invitation - but you have no guarantee you won’t get offered AZ then either.

iseeu

Your posts are filled with disinformation, vague statements and fact twisting.
And you seem to consider rude to disagree with you, or to have the discussion you supposedly welcome and find healthy. Odd.

I’ve been waiting for the Pfizer as don’t want the AZ. Finally my local chemist offering choice as from next week

I don't understand this preference over vaccines, I really don't give a damn what one I get as long as I get one. There are risks and side effects with all of them, just the Oxford was obliterated by the EU on a political score.

@Katya213

I don't understand this preference over vaccines, I really don't give a damn what one I get as long as I get one. There are risks and side effects with all of them, just the Oxford was obliterated by the EU on a political score.

Really? Increased risk of blood clot? No thanks

Yawn

There's always a risk, however small, with any medical procedure or vaccine. That includes Pfizer. I've had two doses of AZ with absolutely no problem at all. I was thankful to be offered a vaccine, any vaccine. Suppose there are now problems with supply of the Pfizer and you only get offered AZ?

Most people are missing that the AZ vaccine also seems to be less effective than the Pfizer one, or the Moderna.
That would be my main issue if I had a choice of vaccine.