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Original poster

I refused the AZ vaccine, now being judged for it

492 replies

cosmoswithcovids · 21/05/2021 07:24

My husband's friend is a Dr, he called yesterday to tell my DH they had spare vaccine and to come over if we wanted one (DH is 33, I'm 30).

We got there and he told us it was AZ, I said I wanted to wait until I was offered the alternative that under 40s are advised to have. My DH looked at me as though I had two heads.

We joined them for drinks at the pub last night where Dr and a couple of other friends were discussing anti-vaxers and I was referenced as one of them. I did reiterate that I'm very keen to be vaccinated but not with AZ. It was then mansplained to me that discrediting the AZ jab (which they've all had and are fiiiiiiiiiiine) was the behaviour of an anti vaxer. I was just meant to feel a bit like an uneducated idiot (I'm not, I'm a solicitor, I'm quite bright) and although my husband says he understood why I didn't want it, the risk is "theoretical" (is it?!)
For the sake of another couple of weeks, I'd rather just wait and have the one which is safer! I'm just feeling a bit rubbish about it all really, I felt quite bounced into it when we got there and it was quite a stress for me having to justify why I didn't want it once we arrived.

OP posts:
withlotsoflove · 27/05/2021 13:03

It’s impossible to find out which you’ll be given now isn’t it?
I’m due to have mine on next Thursday/ my husband got his first at the same places & was given AZ / l suppose l will get the same?

Theonlyoneiknow · 27/05/2021 13:46

@withlotsoflove

It’s impossible to find out which you’ll be given now isn’t it? I’m due to have mine on next Thursday/ my husband got his first at the same places & was given AZ / l suppose l will get the same?
DP and I had ours at the same hub. Different vaccines on different days.
withlotsoflove · 27/05/2021 14:38

Thank u for this. :)

Lweji · 27/05/2021 16:27

Once inside the cell nucleus, certain parts of the spike protein splice, or split apart, creating mutant versions, which are unable to bind to the cell membrane where important immunisation takes place. The floating mutant proteins are instead secreted by cells into the body, triggering blood clots in roughly one in 100,000 people, according to Marschalek’s theory.

This is journalists for you, and they should not talk about what they do not know. It only adds to the confusion by the public. Sigh.

This is what the paper says
"Here, we present first molecular evidence that vector-based vaccines encoding the Spike protein exhibit a problem that is completely absent in mRNA-based vaccines. This is due to the fact that during the vaccination step, the adenoviral DNA enters the nucleus and use the host machinery to transcribe its (trans)genes inside the nucleus. However, RNA viruses have evolved in the absence of any post-transcriptional modification systems that are usually enabled to process the primary RNA transcripts of nuclear encoded genes."

What is split inside the nucleus is not the spike protein (FFS), but rather the instructions for it.

www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-558954/v1

What seems to happen is that the mRNA generated from the DNA carried by the virus in the Astra Zeneca vaccine is truncated by the cell machinery in the nucleus. Cells often do this to generate different products (ultimately different proteins) from the same genes.

The mRNA vaccines produce a protein directly without the step called transcription (production of mRNA from DNA), so this mRNA is not subject to what is called post-transcriptional modifications (basically mRNA editing).

The rest is fine, though.
And it's an interesting finding that should help make DNA based vaccines safer.

pinkmagnolias · 27/05/2021 16:58

It doesn’t matter how the journalists simplify it. The instructions for AZ are in the nucleus and the MRNA aren’t. The issues are caused by that. It causes the issues, they are now trying to fix a bike while cycling the bike!

Lweji · 27/05/2021 17:06

It doesn’t matter how the journalists simplify it.

They didn't simplify it. They explained it wrongly. There is a difference.

Lweji · 27/05/2021 17:09

Also, don't take it personally. I was correcting the journalist, not you. Grin

If people are given wrong information, then it's not surprising that they distrust the media and get confused about science.

pinkmagnolias · 27/05/2021 17:39

Whether it’s the spike protein or the instructions for it - it enters the nucleus and splits which is what results in the issues????
This isn’t the case for the MRNA vaccines?

We know the short term issues but what are the long term effects of the AZ or is that wait and see too?

Grellbunt · 27/05/2021 18:08

Well, Torvean, they are trying to give it to me and my friends and we are all over 40 and female so I would like to see a ratio.

Grellbunt · 27/05/2021 18:09

@AppleJane

They're not going to give it to the over 40s now

Do you have a source for that? There are still women on MN over 40 who are struggling to find an alternative. Apparently it's especially difficult in Scotland.

Exactly!

We are very worried.

Lweji · 27/05/2021 18:30

Whether it’s the spike protein or the instructions for it - it enters the nucleus and splits which is what results in the issues????
This isn’t the case for the MRNA vaccines?

Because the difference explains why mRNA vaccines are not affected, but DNA vaccines are. Both produce proteins. If the proteins entered the nucleus and were cleaved, then there would be no difference between the vaccines.

My bug with how it was written in the article is that it contributes to science lack of literacy, and to confusion among the public.
Erroneous concepts help nobody.
This is just an example. Often journalists, and their poor reporting, are responsible for how bad the public views science.
There is no need to provide erroneous information, when simple explanations can be given but accurately.

(and I did say that the rest was fine, and the article was interesting)

Grellbunt · 27/05/2021 18:40

I'm sure they will get people pointing it out in the comments and will change it. But yes it is disappointing reporting. Thanks for explaining it.

Endofether · 28/05/2021 07:59

I’ve refused both jabs so far as had cv a year ago and wasn’t v ill . I’m 48

I was booked to have Pfizer today actually but am gonna told off totally I think

Endofether · 28/05/2021 08:02

@withlotsoflove

It’s impossible to find out which you’ll be given now isn’t it? I’m due to have mine on next Thursday/ my husband got his first at the same places & was given AZ / l suppose l will get the same?
We can choose which we have at our local chemist
MRex · 28/05/2021 08:26

@Endofether

I’ve refused both jabs so far as had cv a year ago and wasn’t v ill . I’m 48

I was booked to have Pfizer today actually but am gonna told off totally I think

Please cancel first thing to at least give them a chance to fill the slot. It's awful to think of precious doses being wasted. Your really mustn't book any more slots either, just leave them for people who want them.
ScrollingLeaves · 28/05/2021 10:28

A BBC presenter in Newcastle (female), aged 44, has just died from AZ induced blood clots.

Endofether · 28/05/2021 10:48

@ScrollingLeaves awful .

ScrollingLeaves · 28/05/2021 11:09

“Endofether

@ScrollingLeaves awful “

Yes, and it is difficult to fathom how anyone on this thread could possibly criticise OP !

withlotsoflove · 28/05/2021 12:17

@Endofether thank u.
Round here we just get sent to the nearest hub / so l don’t know how to find out?
I might phone my doctor…

Endofether · 28/05/2021 12:25

[quote withlotsoflove]@Endofether thank u.
Round here we just get sent to the nearest hub / so l don’t know how to find out?
I might phone my doctor…[/quote]
Our local chemist said on its fb page they have both so people can choose which they have

withlotsoflove · 28/05/2021 13:22

Thanks again @Endofether - l will look!

Lweji · 28/05/2021 13:28

@Endofether

I’ve refused both jabs so far as had cv a year ago and wasn’t v ill . I’m 48

I was booked to have Pfizer today actually but am gonna told off totally I think

I won't tell you off, however, there have been reports of people who got it worse the second time. And data suggests one jab ensures longer immunity. There are no guarantees that you're immune now, or that it will be the same as before.

In your case, you should get at least one jab, depending on your antibody level, I think.

Endofether · 28/05/2021 13:36

@Lweji I had the positive antibody test 3 weeks ago )

AIMummy · 28/05/2021 13:50

Endofether

I had covid last year too and had the Pfizer jab last week. I read an interesting article yesterday, you may wish to read it: metro.co.uk/2021/05/27/coronavirus-immunity-could-last-lifetime-if-infected-and-vaccinated-14655909/

Lweji · 28/05/2021 15:31

[quote AIMummy]Endofether

I had covid last year too and had the Pfizer jab last week. I read an interesting article yesterday, you may wish to read it: metro.co.uk/2021/05/27/coronavirus-immunity-could-last-lifetime-if-infected-and-vaccinated-14655909/[/quote]
Yes, and the current recommendation is for people previously infected to have at least one shot, at least where I live.

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