I refused the AZ vaccine, now being judged for it

[cosmoswithcovids]

My husband's friend is a Dr, he called yesterday to tell my DH they had spare vaccine and to come over if we wanted one (DH is 33, I'm 30).

We got there and he told us it was AZ, I said I wanted to wait until I was offered the alternative that under 40s are advised to have. My DH looked at me as though I had two heads.

We joined them for drinks at the pub last night where Dr and a couple of other friends were discussing anti-vaxers and I was referenced as one of them. I did reiterate that I'm very keen to be vaccinated but not with AZ. It was then mansplained to me that discrediting the AZ jab (which they've all had and are fiiiiiiiiiiine) was the behaviour of an anti vaxer. I was just meant to feel a bit like an uneducated idiot (I'm not, I'm a solicitor, I'm quite bright) and although my husband says he understood why I didn't want it, the risk is "theoretical" (is it?!)
For the sake of another couple of weeks, I'd rather just wait and have the one which is safer! I'm just feeling a bit rubbish about it all really, I felt quite bounced into it when we got there and it was quite a stress for me having to justify why I didn't want it once we arrived.

Why are people denying there's an issue with AZ when the JCVI and MHRA have acknowledged there is?

I agree the benefits do outweigh the risks for a lot of people but not everyone; in particular if you're under 40, have no underlying conditions and your work-related covid risk is low (i.e. if you work from home you're obviously much safer than someone working in a hospital!), when infection rates in general are low. Not many healthy under 40s have died of covid in the UK throughout the whole pandemic.

There is no shortage of Pfizer/Moderna at the moment and the national booking system is set up so that those under 40 and all pregnant women are allocated a non-AZ vaccine.

The NHS is following JCVI advice on this. And still people think Sandra on Mumsnet knows better...

"And the AZ vaccine doesn't 'go off'. The Pfizer one does as it needs to be kept at a low temp before being opened"

This is not true. Once a vial of AZ is opened it has to be used within six hours or discarded. I work at a Vaccination Centre. Every care is taken not to waste doses, but there are nine or ten doses in a vial and if there are sixteen pods open, all vaccinating it's almost inevitable that there will be a few doses left in a vial at the end of the day.

We open the door at that stage and offer them to anyone that wants them...there's usually a queue.

You are entitled to make an informed choice on which vaccine you want to have and to have decided not to have the AZ. Whether the risk to you is high or low (or reasonable or not) is not the point of your post. You felt rubbish after the GP called you an anti-vaxxer and this is the issue - you know that you're not so why did the opinion of this clumsy GP bother you so much? Couldn't you have laughed off his comments, secure in the knowledge that you'd done what was right for you? You've allowed yourself to feel rubbish because someone mocked you - bite back another time and hold your head high.

@majesticallyawkward

The advice is to offer an alternative if there's one available, not that under 40s shouldn't be given AZ. The risk of a clot is tiny, smaller than the risk of clots from the contraceptive pill but that's still handed out and taken without a second thought.

These 'risks' have been played up by the media who's some aim at the moment seems to be to whip up a frenzy of mass hysteria.

It's not anti vaxx to turn it down, but I do think most people proclaiming AZ is 'too much of a risk' don't really grasp the full picture.

The risk for people in their 40s currently stands at over 1 on 50,000. This isn't a massive risk but it is actually far, far bigger than that being claimed by the utterly uninformed people here in a rush to seem like they are so much smarter than the silly OP. Especially as there is a reasonable likelihood that the risk is actually higher for women than it is for men.

As for the comparison to clots caused by the Pill, well that's irrelevant as the clots that can be caused by the AZ vaccine are a completely and utterly different illness. These clots are Cerebral Venous Sinus Thrombosis (CVST) and they form in the venous sinuses in your brain. In other words, it's a stroke. They have a high mortality rate compared to other clots, even when treated and can cause lasting problems in survivors.

The OP would most probably have been fine but there is a risk of a very, very serious illness which is quite lot higher than so many people here are very erroneously claiming. Waiting a week or two for a less risky option is a valid choice.

@trancepants could you link your source for that figure? I'd be interested to read as I haven't seen the 1 in 50,000 stat with any sound evidence.

I would still far rather take a 1 in 50,000 chance than have everyone panic and descend into hysteria or end up in another lockdown. OP is welcome to hold off, but can't then pitch a fit because someone (a dr in this case) disagrees.

I'm 39 (under a month from the cut off)and was very strongly discouraged from getting AZ by the nurse at the centre. I was sent to get Pfizer elsewhere...

Another friend in a different region was given AZ.

Policy is clearly all over the place!

It was pretty rude to have a go at you about it.

You always have the right to say no.

@KidneyBeans

Your husbands friends sound like dicks.

I say that as someone who has had the AZ vacc and is right on the cutoff age-wise

To be honest it seems that anyone who questions or hesitates these days is ridiculed and labelled and anti vaxxer, even ex vaxxers who've had bad experiences. It's very disappointing that most of society likes to jump on the judgy band wagon as it's the 'in' thing to do. You have a right to be hesitant. Just ignore them. See if you can get an alternative. It's your body and you have a right to protect it as much as you can. Shame on the so called friend who decided to point the finger and label. I'm not sure that's what real friends do to be honest. With 120 Covid vaccines in the making, some with less risks than other, you will have much more choice. These real world real time trials help you decide what's best for you. I would never ridicule anyone who wanted a choice of what medication they put into their body. You have to live with the consequences of your decisions, not anyone else if you happen to be an unlucky one. Ask your Dr as they are the ones making the recommendations. Don't be pressured.

[quote majesticallyawkward]@trancepants could you link your source for that figure? I'd be interested to read as I haven't seen the 1 in 50,000 stat with any sound evidence.

I would still far rather take a 1 in 50,000 chance than have everyone panic and descend into hysteria or end up in another lockdown. OP is welcome to hold off, but can't then pitch a fit because someone (a dr in this case) disagrees. [/quote]
Then you can't have been looking hard tbh. It's from the European Medicines Agency's 'AstraZeneca’s COVID-19 vaccine: benefits and risks in context.'

www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/astrazenecas-covid-19-vaccine-benefits-risks-context

As for the comparison to clots caused by the Pill, well that's irrelevant as the clots that can be caused by the AZ vaccine are a completely and utterly different illness

I dislike the comparison with the pill but that statement isn’t entirely true:

“CVT is more common in pregnant women, or those using contraceptives with oestrogen. It can also be due to infections in your ear or face, as well as blood-clotting conditions”

www.stroke.org.uk/what-is-stroke/are-you-at-risk-of-stroke/women-and-stroke

The difference with the AZ clot is the presentation with thrombocytopenia but in and of itself that isn’t necessarily a problem. Now it’s been identified treatment plans have been adjusted but if the clot is the concern then yes there is a (very small) risk with the oestrogen contraceptive pill.

I think you made the right decision. If you’d gone to a vaccination centre that only had AZ and you explained that you’d had a blood clot before then it’s unlikely they would have given it to you anyway, especially as you’re under 40. The advice from the government based on the recommendation from the people who are experts on vaccines (presumably) is that under 40s should have an alternative. It’s unlikely that you’re putting yourself or anyone else at any major risk by not having a vaccine this week! The government obviously don’t think so as otherwise you’d already have had one. Don’t worry about it too much (easier said than done!)

You get to choose what you do in relation to having any vaccine. You don’t get to control other people’s reactions to your choice - even if they’re being dicks. Sorry about that.

However, you also get to choose your response to their reaction.

What would you do if astrazeneca was the ONLY vaccine on the market? I never thought it would get down to vaccine snobbery lol!

@PuzzledObserver Absolutey!

@Missillusioned
At the rate of Covid at the moment, an AZ vaccine is more risky for a woman of 30 than waiting a couple of weeks for a Pfizer

Problem is it could be considerably longer than a couple of weeks. We currently don’t know when/if we will be getting another delivery of Pfizer for 1st doses. At the moment all of our Pfizer is earmarked for second doses.

It is, however, up to the op if she is happy to wait for the as long as it takes. There will be other (younger?) people happy to take her doses of AZ. We don’t know that that particular dose wasn’t taken up by someone else on the day. It may well not have been wasted at all. Tbh now that the elderly and most vulnerable have been done, I think most HCPs just want as many people as possible to have it ASAP.

@Darkbrownistheriver is this at a vaccination centre that you work at or nationally? I’ve known several people this week who have had their first dose as Pfizer, both under and over 40. Some of them have been to sites where Pfizer was the only option whatever age.

Don't worry, they're the dickheads. It's your choice just wait for the one you want. Don't listen to any of their nonsense you've got a choice about that too.

[quote Darkbrownistheriver]@Missillusioned
At the rate of Covid at the moment, an AZ vaccine is more risky for a woman of 30 than waiting a couple of weeks for a Pfizer

Problem is it could be considerably longer than a couple of weeks. We currently don’t know when/if we will be getting another delivery of Pfizer for 1st doses. At the moment all of our Pfizer is earmarked for second doses.

It is, however, up to the op if she is happy to wait for the as long as it takes. There will be other (younger?) people happy to take her doses of AZ. We don’t know that that particular dose wasn’t taken up by someone else on the day. It may well not have been wasted at all. Tbh now that the elderly and most vulnerable have been done, I think most HCPs just want as many people as possible to have it ASAP.[/quote]
All of our Pfizer is not earmarked for 2nd doses. It’s the reliable first dose supply.

AZ is in short supply for 1st doses. In fact it’s not used for 1st dose in GP hubs at the moment at all. Odd that the OP was offered any given that.

I know a GP who is sceptical about the AZ vaccine in healthier younger people. She says there's no long term data on this and it's impossible to balance everyones risk of covid against the vaccine. You really have to risk asses yourself. Don't feel bad about this it's your body and you have to get the best for it.

My dd is far younger than you and had AZ. The evidence to not use AZ doesn't stack up, its political. Heard an Austrian dr on the bbc who said that Pfizer and moderna have also had clotting events but all are far rarer than complications from covid even at younger age groups.

@LemonTT
All of our Pfizer is not earmarked for 2nd doses. It’s the reliable first dose supply.

AZ is in short supply for 1st doses. In fact it’s not used for 1st dose in GP hubs at the moment at all. Odd that the OP was offered any given that.

Interesting. It obviously depends where in the country you are as we’ve been the opposite. I was told earlier this week that we had no idea when/if we’d be getting more Pfizer. Do you work at a GP hub, or are you further up the chain of information? We’ve constantly had the problem of not knowing what we’re getting and when until about a week before and then having to pull the clinics together at very short notice. I’m just a lowly inputter, it I know it’s been really difficult for our managers to plan ahead.

@trancepants thanks for the link, perhaps you could look up how not to be a dick next?

@MrsIsobelCrawley

For a 30 year-old female, the risk of dying from a blood clot as a result of the AZ vaccine is higher than the risk of dying from covid due to waiting a few additional weeks for a Pfizer.

It's an entirely different scenario for a 50 year-old female where the risk from covid is much higher.

Exactly! There are some dumb people on this thread who lack compassion. Under 40s shouldn’t have the vaccine.

I’d have done the same as you, op. AZ v nothing - AZ. Wait a short while longer to have something that is even safer and not being restricted from people in my demographic - wait. Completely valid and logical decision in my view.

I do agree that this is mansplaining because it doesn’t seem to me that you’d made your decision out of ignorance or misunderstanding the facts. You know the risks are negligible - but they could be even smaller. This does not make you an anti-vaxxer, for goodness sake!

As someone posted on here recently, it’s not so much the risk of a clot, but the worrying until you’re in the clear. I’m a worrier too, and due my second AZ vaccine next week. I’ll be having it, but I know I’ll have some anxiety for those four weeks!

@Bluedeblue

I believe the overall death risk from the vaccine is higher than from the disease

Chris Whitty you ain't.