Alternatives to AstraZeneca vaccine for under 40s “will be considered” amid rise in blood clots Thread 3

[Whichjab]

New thread as the MRHA report is out today.

Note this is not an anti vaccination thread.

Interesting decision made in Italy. Tragic that a young woman had to lose her life for the changes to be implemented though.

I'm also hoping you're doing okay Rainbowsandstorms

Well I called 119 to say my GP said I could have Pfizer as my second dose because I had bad side effects from AZ. I explained that my GP said it was up to me to sort it with 119 and that he said he didn’t need to provide a supporting letter.
I know this is absurd.
II asked the call handler how to find out which vac centres hold Pfizer . She said all vaccination centres hold all three vaccines! I queried this saying that I had heard differently. Then she changed her mind snd told me it was hospitals and pharmacies that would have a selection! I queried this saying I had heard differently regarding pharmacies. Then she told me my GP would know! I queried this because my GP had already told me he wouldn’t know. Then she told me it was likely the GP surgery receptionist would know, that they would have a list of what my local NHS vac centres were holding in the way of vaccines! I queried this because I wasn’t convinced at all. I then said that I was concerned about access to Pfizer if it meant travelling a long way as this could be a problem for me health wise. She replied that Pfizer could be brought to my home ! I queried this because I have heard ( and know) that they can only bring AZ to peoples’ homes. She replied to check that as she wasn’t sure. I asked her how could it be arranged for me to have Pfizer as my second dose - how would the vaccination centre know that it was being allowed for me by my GP when my GP wasn’t doing a supporting letter even. She replied that the vaccination centre would see my conversation that I had with my GP on my GP records that the vaccination centres computers could show. I queried this because first of all I am not convinced that an NHS vaccination centre can tap into your complete medical GP file, secondly I don’t know exactly what notes my GP put on my file from the phone call conversation, he may have not written that he had said I could have Pfizer.
I cannot see at all how on earth 119 services can set it up for someone to have an alternative vaccine as a second dose, which were my thoughts before my ringing 119 and after ringing 119…well, I don’t want to use bad language on here.
I am disgusted with the whole vac thing now, I feel pressured to have a vaccine not of my choice, feel ‘damaged’ from the first dose, and now feel dumped in a system that can’t accommodate my situation.

That's awful Penni. It sounds like your only option will be to turn up for your appointment and argue it out with them, high is less than ideal and not easy to do as they seem adamant on giving AZ. What's the point of doctors making recommendations of they can't then make a referral?

Thank you everyone for the well wishes. Blood tests took an age to come back but my platelet levels are all as they should be so I’m finally back home which is a huge relief. I was very impressed at how it was all dealt with though I did see one of the senior doctors roll his eyes about me having been referred by the GP.

@penni00 what a nightmare. I would assume at the very least you’d need a letter from your GP. I wonder if @whataballbag can provide any advice as I know she’s also had her GP authorise Pfizer as a second dose. I hope you’re able to get it sorted. If you tick the could be pregnant box it should show you sites that are offering an alternative to AZ and I imagine now we are down to the lower age groups most sites will be stocking alternatives. I hope you can get sorted.

I’ve just cancelled my appointment for my second dose again. Does anyone know which countries other than Norway and Italy are giving an alternative to AZ as a second dose? I’ve decided I’m going to call my GP and push for an alternative to AZ as my second. It was some of the other European countries that made early decisions about AZ and the younger age groups.

@RainbowsandstormsI think Frances and maybe Germany?

Yes, it’s been Germany’s policy since late March.

@ICanSmellSummerComing

True, apparently Pfizer isn't as effective against delta so maybe they had P?

The Germans said they know what is causing the clots so why aren't all efforts going to tweak AZ?.

Pfizer has over 80% efficacy against delta versus about 60% for AZ.

I have been private messaging other posters about how to get it arranged for a second alternative dose. I think if you had an allergic reaction with your first dose it is easier to sort. Plus if your GP led vac centre is still operating then the GP can sort it more easily for you to have it at the GP led vaccination centre. . My GP led vac centre has finished so my second dose of anything now has to be at an NHS vac centre.
Also the 119 lady told me to phone the vaccination centres. I queried that too because from my experience you can’t do this - when I have phoned the ones in my area there is a message to phone 119.
Has anyone out there had success in phoning an NHS vaccination centre directly? ( 119 have twice told me you can phone them directly).

@Rainbowsandstorms
Do you still have a GP led vac centre operating?

AFAIK there's a fair few countries giving alternate vaccines - France, Spain, Germany, Sweden and Canada off the top of my head

And Norway. They publish data weekly.

@IAmTheLemonInPlay

Does anyone know whether the link between AZ, clots, and low patelets is that if you already have low blood platelets, then having the AZ vaccine then causes the plot because platelets were already low. Or if you have normal platelet levels, would the AZ vaccine cause both the clot and the low platelets (or possibly AZ causes low platelets that then causes the plot)?

I can't tell from the MHRA reports which is the case, or even if this is known.

I was just wondering if this is something that could be tested to give some reassurance if AZ is all that is on offer.

From what I've read there was a study suggesting the levels of EDTA in the vaccine and that it was staying around the injection site was causing the issue.

That's in laymen's terms though. And I could have understood it completely wrong!!!

Would anyone on here be prepared to walk into a vaccination centre for a second dose of AZ (12weeks after first dose) whilst still having tingling in face, hand , feet and legs side effects - my GP could see why I was reluctant but did not say NOT to have more AZ.
Isn't this ridiculous, or am I overreacting?

@whataballbag

I am reading up on EDTA , the preservative used in vaccines - found this:

'EDTA is used in some vaccines as a preservative, but it is also known to make blood vessels a bit leaky, says Andreas Greinacher, an expert on clotting at the University of Greifswald who led the study. He said he was suprised at the concentration the group found in the AstraZeneca vaccine samples they examined: 100 micromoles, which is much higher than amounts listed for other common vaccines.'

(surprised, the above is not my spelling mistake!)

@penni00 you're certainly not over reacting. My DP won't have his second and from how I've seen him being affected I don't blame him. It's too much of a coincidence that all the problems started immediately after vaccination. And common sense tells you that if death is the worse case scenario there must be slightly more mild side effects. It can't be death or nothing.

@AppleJane

I am sorry to hear about your DP.
Would your DP consider an alternative vaccine for a second dose, or is he not a fan of vaccines at all now?
I am looking into alternative vaccine second dose, but really doing just the research into the logistics of acquiring it at the moment. I need to be completely better before having any more of anything really, it is just with the Indian variant cases increasing I am panicking over how long I can take.

Plus I worry whatever the AZ has done and is still doing to me, whether that reaction could be boosted when even having a different vaccination as a second dose. I mean, can a reaction of a first dose be carried over and react even more when your immune system is boosted even by an altogether different vaccine?
I feel like I need my blood changed/cleaned to rid all the ongoing AZ effects.....and then start again with a vaccine I trust. Not a plan, just a feeling!

I wished I lived in Norway. I get the feeling they are very transparent there.

I am now ten days post vaccine 2 and having a wobble. Dd is in a complete panic about it and not sleeping as she is so anxious that I might die, so this is now getting me more bothered. I had managed to not think about it too much, a bit worried but able to switch off, now I am feeling very stressed !

@penni00 I would prefer him to have an alternative but at the moment he's done with it. Both of us were ill end 2019, beginning of 2020 with classic Covid symptoms. He was fine with that overall but left feeling wiped out for a few weeks. There just doesn't seem to be enough known about the effects of a vaccine if you've already had Covid or even how well you are protected. It's easier for us because we can avoid risky situations. I really don't know what we'd do if say one of us was a teacher etc.

@AppleJane

Actually, if I had had Covid previously, I definitely wouldn't get a second jab.
I would have thought that by now, if it was that easy to get Covid more than once, we would be hearing more about people having it a second time. But I haven't seen lots of people getting Covid twice. How many have actually have Covid more than once? Is there a thread for this question, I wonder.

@Leaveitonthefloordrobe

Interesting decision made in Italy. Tragic that a young woman had to lose her life for the changes to be implemented though.

I'm also hoping you're doing okay Rainbowsandstorms

It's been established that the girl who died had an existing blood disorder for which she was undergoing treatment that she didn't disclose the day she went for the vaccination.

Rainbow am glad your home safely and everything was OK.
There was a thread a few days ago where poster said her dh had small bruise like marks, totally dismissed by gp and a and e. Then I saw there is a problem with AZ and this new disorders!! One thing having to risk issues quite another to get no medical back up!