Alternatives to AstraZeneca vaccine for under 40s “will be considered” amid rise in blood clots Thread 3

[Whichjab]

New thread as the MRHA report is out today.

Note this is not an anti vaccination thread.

Update for those of you who kindly answered my queries. I’ve just been to get my vaccine today. I googled “walk-in” vaccine as I’d seen potentially high risk areas were running them to encourage local residents to get the vaccine. Found a centre in my neighbouring county, made a phone call and discovered it was offering Moderna so headed off to see if they’d got any doses left. They had and I walked straight in. Hope this helps someone else anxious about the AZ (I’m 49).

Yay, @jenthehen! Well done!

'As a side point I am really gutted that this vaccine has ended up with problems as it’s such an incredible achievement'

Yes. This. We all want this to work. I'm just back from Specsavers and it was heaving in there, far too many people, badly ventilated, lots of kids without masks. I was glad I had already had my first jab, and really hope the opticians were prioritised for jabs, too!

I don’t personally subscribe to the view that AZ was (or is) going to save the world. It’s akin to be a Russian and claiming Sputnik will. There are now many good vaccines out there with less issues.

Moderna made its vaccine patent free last year. J&J is selling essentially at cost to the developing world. AZ is due to stop selling at cost, just in time to supply poorer nations. 😐

It frightens me sometimes, the chauvinism around this vaccine here. I applaud all of the scientists efforts on the many vaccines currently being developed and produced, including AZ, but I’m uncomfortable with the way some of the problems around it have been swept under the rug here.

@jenthehen woo hoo!! So happy for you, I know you've found it hard to get one. Such wonderful news. Well done

I'm due my second AZ vaccine on 29th May. I don't know what to do at all now.

Thanks@AppleJane

Really happy for you jenthehen! Welcome to the Moderna club.

I’m 34 and had the AZ because my GP had spare doses of it mid April - no health issues. I had really terrible side effects that lasted for 14 days and ended up in A&E. Platelets were normal but D-Dimer (blood test for clotting) was elevated. I am not getting the second dose and my confidence in the vaccines has been totally shaken. I don’t think I will feel confident to mix vaccines and just wish I’d held off and could have got Pfizer or Moderna instead.

Hello, does anyone follow Dr Beverly Hunt on Twitter?. She is the Medical Director of Thrombosis UK.

She has posted this today.

If she is correct, I think the MHRA should hold off reporting thrombosis numbers after 2nd dose until they’re certain what kind of clots they were. Or at least make it clear that they haven’t been confirmed as VITT.

@Swimbikerunmummy I saw your message before you withdrew it. Are you vaccinated yourself yet?

@jenthehen

Update for those of you who kindly answered my queries. I’ve just been to get my vaccine today. I googled “walk-in” vaccine as I’d seen potentially high risk areas were running them to encourage local residents to get the vaccine. Found a centre in my neighbouring county, made a phone call and discovered it was offering Moderna so headed off to see if they’d got any doses left. They had and I walked straight in. Hope this helps someone else anxious about the AZ (I’m 49).

Hi Sorry I mistyped in my original post - is this in England? Glad you got what you needed

@User657849

Hello, does anyone follow Dr Beverly Hunt on Twitter?. She is the Medical Director of Thrombosis UK.

She has posted this today.

If she is correct, I think the MHRA should hold off reporting thrombosis numbers after 2nd dose until they’re certain what kind of clots they were. Or at least make it clear that they haven’t been confirmed as VITT.

I’ve just been looking at this. Does anyone understand what it actually means? Is it just that they’ve been yellow carded as VITT but those investigating have established that there are no platelet 4 antibodies? Does anyone understand what the implications of this are and if the resulting thrombosis is less serious or easier to treat? We really need a bit more transparency so people can try and make an informed decision about their second dose.

Just wanted to thank everyone who is making this the calmest and most informative vaccine thread in the internet. I’ve been following since thread 1 and have made some contributions on previous threads although recently name changed. My previous post on this thread about brain damage in clot survivors wasn’t very well worded. What I really meant was:

I understand there is a possibility that clot survivors suffer life altering brain damage. Do we know if any survivors make full recoveries and what proportion?

I’m over 40 but not by much and I consider that my sex, the fact I don’t have any additional risk factors and the fact I’ve had covid mean the risk from Covid does not outweigh the risk from AZ. I have not yet managed to get an alternative.

@GentlemanJackie I don’t think they’ve released that much detail but I did once see a statistic showing how many were “recovered” and how many were “recovering” from VITT. I think it will largely depend on where the clot occurs and how quickly the patient is treated.

@MiniMaxi yes this is something I can understand we don’t yet exactly have data on. It’s just one of the many things I wonder that can’t really be answered yet. Others are: How long will the vaccines provide protection (including T cells not just antibodies) and what are the actual figures behind the headline that ‘vaccines provide UP TO 50% reduction in transmission’. This was the least convincing headline I think I’ve read so far and was I think linked to the rollout of AZ to the under 50s? I agree we want to reduce transmission and I might even take a vaccine in order to reduce transmission if I weren’t treated like an idiot with meaningless statistics.

That Beverly Hunt thread is interesting. Does somewhat read as yet another example of someone purporting to have expert information to make a claim which amounts to more than an over reliance on "yet" and doing quite a lot of walking back when questioned. This has been the problem all along with the messaging in the UK relative to other countries. Not in any way helpful in building confidence.

IndigoC I agree re UK cheerleading. Worth also noting that all side effect reporting, not just the particular risk under review, is much higher for AZ relative to Pfizer on a per dose basis.

On whether the vaccine in fact cuts transmission this is interesting and in line with the very "careful" wording Hancock used in relation to Bolton. It was picked up as being less than transparent by some at the time.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/19/stop-blaming-vaccine-hesitancy-for-spread-of-india-covid-variant-says-council-leader

@Grellbunt yes this was in England.

[quote jenthehen]@Grellbunt yes this was in England.[/quote]
Thanks. Suspected so.

[quote SempreSuiGeneris]On whether the vaccine in fact cuts transmission this is interesting and in line with the very "careful" wording Hancock used in relation to Bolton. It was picked up as being less than transparent by some at the time.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/19/stop-blaming-vaccine-hesitancy-for-spread-of-india-covid-variant-says-council-leader[/quote]
Very interesting, and unsurprising. I’ve been trying to reconcile the Changi airport cluster in Singapore, where the B.1.167 variant spread effectively between people vaccinated with both doses of mRNA vaccines, and the messaging here this week. I’m still hopeful the vaccines are protective for most against serious illness but transmission is clearly an issue.

@GentlemanJackie Best of luck. I imagine that within a few weeks there’ll be very few places left giving out AZ as first doses. The trick will be avoiding the centres that are running dual tracks. Failing that, they’re expected to approve J&J soon and begin rolling it out to “refuseniks” (their word 😂) in July. While it also has clotting issues, it seems to be a factor of 2 or 3 times less.

@AppleJane no, am not vaccinated yet. Been waiting for a choice because of my lupus anticoagulant. Have had to book AZ for tomorrow but whether I can go through with it I don’t know. I feel terrible from the nerves. Sick and jittery.

This is such a useful thread, and, having been treated like a paranoid lunatic by the few people I've told, I'm glad I'm not alone. I had my first AZ vaccine in March, I think it was the exact day the blood clot issue emerged.

Like many others, I had a headache for weeks after and an immediate very heavy period immediately after with nothing since. DH got the first nosebleed he's ever had.

I'm due my second at the start of June but have cancelled (I think, was just given an email address to contact) as I just feel that I don't have enough information about the safety/risks of the second dose.

While I get that the odds are still pretty low, that doesn't really help if you're one of them. To me, it feels starker than risks such as driving a car or crossing the road; I am being urged to put something in my body that could kill me in just that dose, and I have no way of avoiding that.

I am early 40s and have had Covid, which wasn't the most fun I've had, but was manageable.

If we had more clarity on all of this, I'd feel more comfortable, but at the moment, I genuinely feel quite unsettled by how this is playing out.

Oh, and like everyone else here, I am incredibly pro-vax - in fact, I'm really bloody angry that this has taken the joy and relief out of it for me.

[quote Swimbikerunmummy]@AppleJane no, am not vaccinated yet. Been waiting for a choice because of my lupus anticoagulant. Have had to book AZ for tomorrow but whether I can go through with it I don’t know. I feel terrible from the nerves. Sick and jittery.[/quote]

Do you think they are bluffing when they said you won't be able to be vaccinated at all? I'm just not sure they could morally do that! I mean what would happen if you booked an appointment but say your car broke down and couldn't get there etc. I really feel for you