To refuse the vaccine for this reason

[SEmyarse]

Goodness know why I'm doing this since I'm most averse to being flamed and I'm going to get grilled alive.

My reason being that I don't think that it will work. I don't mean the vaccine itself, I have no specialist knowledge. I mean the whole strategy of vaccinating everyone.

So we're told that the vaccine is good for personal protection. Got it - no-one wants to die of this nasty disease.
And then we're told that its good to protect those around us. Absolutely got it - even if there's a possibility of nasty side effects, I'm not important in the grand scheme, it's a risk assessment for everyone's benefit.

So of course I'd get the vaccine if those were the only considerations.
But surely that only works if we're isolated from the rest of the world. I know there's been lots of talk of helping poorer countries with their vaccine programmes, but really? We're expecting countries who struggle with persistent poverty, illness, war to prioritise this? It's just not going to happen is it? I just can't see it. And it really feels like we're just doing it to stop them giving it back to us.

And even within our own country, and even with our apparently very successful roll-out, I can't see this being sustainable. We already know that it's going to have to be repeated very frequently. Volunteers won't do it forever, halls etc can't be commandeered forever can they? The numbers are way bigger than the flu scheme.

So then we're back to risk assessment. I'm still not massively bothered by the possibility of side effects, but it does seem unwise to take it if I genuinely don't believe it will work or make things better.

In fact I'd go so far as to say that I'm concerned it's going to make things worse. If there was any way of having the young catch it in fairly quick succession, so from a super spreader, surely that would be safer. It would be transmitted in a smaller number of moves, thus less likely to mutate. As it is though we are forcing it though narrower channels of transmission (by social distancing etc), from person, to person, to person etc, giving it much more chance to change. Of course there is no way of doing this safely though. And then we have absolutely no influence when it lands abroad in much larger populations who often have no choice but to carry on, and there we are with another variant, with quite a possibility it will change enough to be a problem.

I honestly believe that the only sensible use of vaccines is for the most vulnerable, to do our best in an out of control situation.

I'm understand you OP and agree with you for what it's worth. I've namechanged because I had a similar thread and it was all pitchforks and torches etc. Good luck!

You get the flu jab when you’re pregnant. The only way you might possibly miss it is if you completely miss the flu season between booking appointment and due date!?! But I could be way off.

Children are are also offered the nasal flu spray around 2 years old. I believe younger ones don’t need it because they still have immunity from mum - again I might not be 100%, just trying to remember from my little ones.

My workplace offers the flu jab to anyone who wants it. Lots of work places do.

Anyone classed as vulnerable or elderly also gets it.

It’s literally been a thing in life for years. I’m really surprised you’ve never heard of any of this.

Do you have poor healthcare provisions locally? Do you not like to engage or do you have health anxiety?

There is a really simple explanation as to why you should have a vaccination for viruses which have potential to very seriously affect people - it is to protect you. And it is to protect the wider community and especially those who for whatever health reason, cannot have the vaccination.

The choice is yours of course but there is a very clear reason to be vaccinated against a virus which is actively amongst us. It’s no different to all the others really.

Here OP. Have a read.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/flu-influenza-vaccine/

Actually, it's possible your DC might have missed the flu vaccine programme if your youngest is 14. The roll out started in 2012ish with toddlers and has expanded to up to year 7 being offered it annually.

I’m trying to imagine how crap I’d feel if I was the index case for a variant that was vaccine resistant and I didn’t minimise my risk of being a good host for virus mutation.

The other thing to consider OP is that science is improving all the time.

Just because right now we think it’ll be a regular requirement, maybe in the future they will develop a vaccination which offers long term protection.

The flu jab is available to millions of people, ok it’s different to literally everyone in the country requiring it but covid would be year round and you wouldn’t need all the halls and volunteers and all that jazz, they would simplify the process to be offered exactly the flu jab is now. You can have it at bloody Tesco’s pharmacy for gods sake.

I appreciate you’re feeling anxious and that it won’t “work” but you’re only seeing the future within today’s context. 6 months ago we didn’t even have the vaccination out there. What could we have with another year or two of developments???

I don't really know about local healthcare, I've only lived here 2 years and only used the doctor for an ear infection. But certainly I never came across the flu jab thing in my old area, despite having 3 kids and caring for my disabled husband, but that was all 15-25 years so maybe that explains things.

The weird thing is that THIS surgery has decided I'm vulnerable for covid reasons, but when I asked why they said it was because I was diagnosed as a floppy baby in 1978. Surely that doesn't count??

I can’t believe I spent time reading that OP. Dumb doesn’t even cover it. MN should leave it up so other potential anti-vaxxers can see the company they keep.

How can I be an anti-vaxxer when my kids have all had tetanus, diphtheria, whooping cough, mmr, meningitis, HPV etc?

Don't know why flu jabs have passed me by

Depending on where you are, anecdotally some public health authorities and surgeries are looking for ways to make the clinical need definition as broad as possible so that they can surge in vaccines, particularly in areas of greater risk.

It’s only anecdotal as I say. But some authorities are faster than others - even before the recent changes I had only 8 weeks between my doses rather than 12.

Oh and my older daughter has had both jabs (facilitated by me). I'm quite happy for her to make her own decision.

Ffs. Clearly it does work. All viruses mutate. The trick is to achieve herd immunity.

Look at Polio, TB, Smallpox, Flu. How many people do you know who have had Whooping cough? If enough are vaccinated, it doesn't get time or enough hosts to mutate significantly. Like Flu, we will end up with an annual jab.

Haha, bizarrely I had whooping cough as a child! Had to be quarantined for 6 weeks.

This regular flu jab thing has given me a lot to think about. I had NO IDEA that we did regular jabs for people. Maybe it is possible to vaccinate loads of people all the time then. I thought past childhood it was a completely new idea to vaccinate adults.

@rosie39forever

Am I imagining it or is there an unprecedented amount of stupid on mumsnet at the moment? Do these people really exist? Thread after thread of utter lunacy!

Absolutely barking, this evening!! @rosie39forever Is it a full moon or something?

I think your reasoning is a bit confused, OP. The risk of vaccine-resistant variants will continue while the case numbers are so high - which is a great incentive for wealthier countries to support less wealthy ones through the Covax program. It might take a couple of years, but it's possible to distribute vaccines to everyone in the world who wants them. It's our only real way out of this, long-term, unless the mutations become less deadly over time, which is what happened with some historical pandemics

That said, the decision is completely up to you. Have it if and when you're happy to do so. I've had mine, but I think free choice is very important.

(And to others - I highly doubt that anyone decided to get vaccinated because someone online said 'just do it, you idiot' or something to that effect - if anything, that'll be counterproductive!)

@SEmyarse

How can I be an anti-vaxxer when my kids have all had tetanus, diphtheria, whooping cough, mmr, meningitis, HPV etc?

Don't know why flu jabs have passed me by

So why did you get them vaccinated when it wasn't going to benefit anyone?

Do you not read the news. Since vaccination roll out deaths have come down & down & are now less than 5 a day after being in the hundreds day in day out. The new Indian strain ( theee are 2 other strains as well)hasn't proved resistant to the vaccine in tests. Smallpox & TB were practically wiped out by vaccines. It's only in countries that never had the vaccine that its survived at all. I can't believe I'm reading this. Mind-blowing. Just mind blowing.

Maybe it is possible to vaccinate loads of people all the time then.

Well yes it is, and if we need regular Covid boosters in the future they’ll probably be rolled up with the flu jab programme.

But you’re still assuming that we’ll have to vaccinate everybody in the world regularly. We probably won’t. The vaccine immunity won’t wear off after a few months, and the virus mutating doesn’t mean it’ll be able to dodge vaccines all the time.

Crackers! My dc have had flu vaccine every year since age of 2, my dh (diabetic) parents and in laws all have annual flu jab. I was preg in 2009/10 so had swine flu jab. Personally I'll take whatever protection I can get to safeguard my closest people.

the wrong thing to get the vaccine if I feel it's just for personal protection
yet you’re terrified of ICU? you do realise how stupid you sound?
I despair of how some people think 🙄

This regular flu jab thing has given me a lot to think about. I had NO IDEA that we did regular jabs for people. Maybe it is possible to vaccinate loads of people all the time then. I thought past childhood it was a completely new idea to vaccinate adults.

They did 14 million people in the NHS programme in 2019/20, so pre-Covid. And that’s not counting all the people who paid through the pharmacy or got it at their workplace.

@JassyRadlett
I’m completely stunned the OP has not heard of the flu jab, not one of these millions of people are known to her??
beggars belief the ignorance on MN of a evening.

YABU. There are plenty of articles about lots of points you mentioned, widely available online.

Well I'm sure I'd have had the flu vaccine if offered because I used to just blindly do the things that the authorities told me to, especially with the kids. (Still can't find anyone in my extended family who knows anything abuot regular flu jabs).
I've given permission for all kid jabs, firstly because that's what you do, and secondly there's a very clear personal benefit to them AND society.

This is entirely different since it is of very marginal benefit/risk to myself, and I'm not clear it's a good idea for society in the long run.

@SEmyarse you've said yourself that you don't understand the science but your reason for not having the vaccine is because YOU think it might make things worse for global health. You have no knowledge or understanding of epidemiology but you have come up with a wild hypothesis based on nothing?!! I can at least "understand" anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists who believe misinformation because they are acting on "evidence" from people they believe to be "experts".