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To refuse the vaccine for this reason

596 replies

SEmyarse · 18/05/2021 19:09

Goodness know why I'm doing this since I'm most averse to being flamed and I'm going to get grilled alive.

My reason being that I don't think that it will work. I don't mean the vaccine itself, I have no specialist knowledge. I mean the whole strategy of vaccinating everyone.

So we're told that the vaccine is good for personal protection. Got it - no-one wants to die of this nasty disease.
And then we're told that its good to protect those around us. Absolutely got it - even if there's a possibility of nasty side effects, I'm not important in the grand scheme, it's a risk assessment for everyone's benefit.

So of course I'd get the vaccine if those were the only considerations.
But surely that only works if we're isolated from the rest of the world. I know there's been lots of talk of helping poorer countries with their vaccine programmes, but really? We're expecting countries who struggle with persistent poverty, illness, war to prioritise this? It's just not going to happen is it? I just can't see it. And it really feels like we're just doing it to stop them giving it back to us.

And even within our own country, and even with our apparently very successful roll-out, I can't see this being sustainable. We already know that it's going to have to be repeated very frequently. Volunteers won't do it forever, halls etc can't be commandeered forever can they? The numbers are way bigger than the flu scheme.

So then we're back to risk assessment. I'm still not massively bothered by the possibility of side effects, but it does seem unwise to take it if I genuinely don't believe it will work or make things better.

In fact I'd go so far as to say that I'm concerned it's going to make things worse. If there was any way of having the young catch it in fairly quick succession, so from a super spreader, surely that would be safer. It would be transmitted in a smaller number of moves, thus less likely to mutate. As it is though we are forcing it though narrower channels of transmission (by social distancing etc), from person, to person, to person etc, giving it much more chance to change. Of course there is no way of doing this safely though. And then we have absolutely no influence when it lands abroad in much larger populations who often have no choice but to carry on, and there we are with another variant, with quite a possibility it will change enough to be a problem.

I honestly believe that the only sensible use of vaccines is for the most vulnerable, to do our best in an out of control situation.

OP posts:
SEmyarse · 18/05/2021 21:29

I'm aware it's insane to risk ICU (or worse), but I've definitely got to the point where it is SO important that I feel I've done the right thing, that yes I might have to risk my life (however over the top that sounds).

OP posts:
tobedtoMNandfart · 18/05/2021 21:30

@SEmyarse

I guess most people wouldn't tell me if they'd had a flu jab, but I'm now frantically texting relatives and I've yet to find anyone who has.

This is definitely odd, since you all think it's widespread.

Well I guess it depends where you live. Where do you live OP? The moon?

Mousetown · 18/05/2021 21:31

This is one of the most bizarre threads I’ve read in a long time. I can’t get my head round your logic. It makes absolutely no sense.

As for the flu vaccine -I’m a woman in my 30s and have it every year. Most people in my social circle get them. If they are not eligible for them on the NHS they just pop into Asda, Tesco or Boots whilst doing their shopping and pay to have it done for a tenner. I can’t believe you had no idea this was a thing? Do you not see all the public health campaigns every winter? There are literally billboards telling you to get a flu vaccine.

SEmyarse · 18/05/2021 21:31

Oxfordshire now, Sussex before that. All family in Cornwall

OP posts:
ThursdayWeld · 18/05/2021 21:31

So, OP, you've clearly demonstrated that you know very little about mass public vaccination campaigns. While also deciding that you know a lot about the Covid vaccine's efficacy...

whataballbag · 18/05/2021 21:31

How can you not know about the flu jab? Have you never been to a pharmacy/supermarket/hospital during autumn/winter?

ThursdayWeld · 18/05/2021 21:32

@SEmyarse

I'm aware it's insane to risk ICU (or worse), but I've definitely got to the point where it is SO important that I feel I've done the right thing, that yes I might have to risk my life (however over the top that sounds).
Utter lunacy, right there.
mainsfed · 18/05/2021 21:33

But what good would risking your life do OP? I don't get it 😫

Beseigedbykillersquirrels · 18/05/2021 21:33

@SEmyarse

I'm aware it's insane to risk ICU (or worse), but I've definitely got to the point where it is SO important that I feel I've done the right thing, that yes I might have to risk my life (however over the top that sounds).
Right, so you'd rather leave your children motherless and husband widowered than have a covid jab? Do you see yourself as some kind of inevitable human sacrifice? What effect on the world do you imagine your not getting the jab will have? This is possibly the most infuriating nonsense I've ever read on here.
Kdubs1981 · 18/05/2021 21:33

The NHS flu vaccine program 2020-2021

https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/LetterAnnualFluu2020-2120200805.pdf

Everyone over 65
Vulnerable groups of adults and children
All pregnant women
All
Children 2-3
Primary age school children
NHS workers
Social care workers

EVERY YEAR

Twattergy · 18/05/2021 21:34

If you are SO worried about doing the right thing...then have the f**ing vaccine. Your cod theories about how vaccination won't help anyone are insane.

SEmyarse · 18/05/2021 21:34

I'm starting to feel like I must be on the moon too. No, i've never seen flu jabs advertised.

You make it sound like NON-vulnerable are getting them too. Why would you do that? and some people get them at work? do you all club together for a jabber to come in?

OP posts:
HerMammy · 18/05/2021 21:35

@SEmyarse
The flu jab is promoted on TV, newspapers, local pharmacies, GPs, not one person you know has heard of it?
Every year my local town hall has a week long programme for it and are
inundated with people, probably about 1/4 of the population have it.
I can’t believe anyone is this oblivious.

mainsfed · 18/05/2021 21:35

@SEmyarse

Well I'm sure I'd have had the flu vaccine if offered because I used to just blindly do the things that the authorities told me to, especially with the kids. (Still can't find anyone in my extended family who knows anything abuot regular flu jabs). I've given permission for all kid jabs, firstly because that's what you do, and secondly there's a very clear personal benefit to them AND society.

This is entirely different since it is of very marginal benefit/risk to myself, and I'm not clear it's a good idea for society in the long run.

Now is the WORST time to stop blindly following the authorities.

You're in a higher risk group (if you're in your late 50s). Get the vaccine, protect your mum.

Beseigedbykillersquirrels · 18/05/2021 21:35

@SEmyarse

I'm starting to feel like I must be on the moon too. No, i've never seen flu jabs advertised.

You make it sound like NON-vulnerable are getting them too. Why would you do that? and some people get them at work? do you all club together for a jabber to come in?

You actually couldn't find your arse with both hands, could you?
Imnothereforthedrama · 18/05/2021 21:35

So let me get this straight you think a vaccine created to reduce people getting seriously ill and dying should be refused .
Hmmmm

JassyRadlett · 18/05/2021 21:37

This is entirely different since it is of very marginal benefit/risk to myself, and I'm not clear it's a good idea for society in the long run.

So here are some of the benefits to society:

Less virus circulating = fewer people get it, fewer people become seriously ill and die. Society wins.

Fewer people becoming seriously ill and dying = greater ability by the health system to cope and to get on with other things such as cancer diagnoses and non-emergency surgeries. Society wins.

Fewer people get it = fewer chances of more dangerous variants. Society wins.

Lower viral load in those who do get it = lower chance of a new variant emerging. Society wins.

Better control of the virus and faster path to herd immunity rather than having repeated lockdowns until we reach it naturally = fewer kids missing out on school, fewer businesses folding, fewer people losing their jobs, fewer people not able to see loved ones. Society wins.

There is a flip side to each of these. Without the vaccine, society loses.

HerMammy · 18/05/2021 21:37

@Beseigedbykillersquirrels
🤣🤣🤣
send your squirrels to OP, put her out her misery.

Mousetown · 18/05/2021 21:37

@SEmyarse

Oxfordshire now, Sussex before that. All family in Cornwall
Can confirm that routine yearly flu vaccinations, and public campaigns urging people to get flu vaccines, are definitely happening in Cornwall.
SEmyarse · 18/05/2021 21:38

No, I'm mid 40s.

Is this a class thing or something? It's just not in my world.

OP posts:
Beseigedbykillersquirrels · 18/05/2021 21:39

@Imnothereforthedrama

So let me get this straight you think a vaccine created to reduce people getting seriously ill and dying should be refused . Hmmmm
On moral grounds, apparently, yes. It may leave her children motherless but OP needs to feel when she's dead that she made the right moral choice. Except no one's really sure what is so morally reprehensible about having a vaccination against a potentially fatal virus. She thinks martyring herself is definitely the best thing to do, without a doubt.
JassyRadlett · 18/05/2021 21:39

You make it sound like NON-vulnerable are getting them too. Why would you do that? and some people get them at work? do you all club together for a jabber to come in?

Workplaces fund it. Either for a nurse to come in and do the jabs on site, or for a voucher system at a local pharmacy.

Employers recognise that it’s in their interests not to have large parts of their workforce off with flu, and to have flu spreading through their workplaces, when it’s preventable.

HotGlueGun · 18/05/2021 21:39

@SEmyarse

I'm starting to feel like I must be on the moon too. No, i've never seen flu jabs advertised.

You make it sound like NON-vulnerable are getting them too. Why would you do that? and some people get them at work? do you all club together for a jabber to come in?

"Do you all club together for a jabber to come in"???

This is taking the piss now. I don't believe a word of this

chesirecat99 · 18/05/2021 21:39

There are posters in every pharmacy about NHS flu jabs and their own advertising private vaccination schemes. Have you never been in a Boots? Supermarket pharmacies offer them. Lots of companies pay for private flu jabs (a pharmacist visits the office) because it costs less than the potential loss from people being off sick.

Beseigedbykillersquirrels · 18/05/2021 21:40

@SEmyarse

No, I'm mid 40s.

Is this a class thing or something? It's just not in my world.

Yes, I believe the flu virus only wishes to be entertained by the most exquisite hosts and chooses its hosts accordingly.