To refuse the vaccine for this reason

[SEmyarse]

Goodness know why I'm doing this since I'm most averse to being flamed and I'm going to get grilled alive.

My reason being that I don't think that it will work. I don't mean the vaccine itself, I have no specialist knowledge. I mean the whole strategy of vaccinating everyone.

So we're told that the vaccine is good for personal protection. Got it - no-one wants to die of this nasty disease.
And then we're told that its good to protect those around us. Absolutely got it - even if there's a possibility of nasty side effects, I'm not important in the grand scheme, it's a risk assessment for everyone's benefit.

So of course I'd get the vaccine if those were the only considerations.
But surely that only works if we're isolated from the rest of the world. I know there's been lots of talk of helping poorer countries with their vaccine programmes, but really? We're expecting countries who struggle with persistent poverty, illness, war to prioritise this? It's just not going to happen is it? I just can't see it. And it really feels like we're just doing it to stop them giving it back to us.

And even within our own country, and even with our apparently very successful roll-out, I can't see this being sustainable. We already know that it's going to have to be repeated very frequently. Volunteers won't do it forever, halls etc can't be commandeered forever can they? The numbers are way bigger than the flu scheme.

So then we're back to risk assessment. I'm still not massively bothered by the possibility of side effects, but it does seem unwise to take it if I genuinely don't believe it will work or make things better.

In fact I'd go so far as to say that I'm concerned it's going to make things worse. If there was any way of having the young catch it in fairly quick succession, so from a super spreader, surely that would be safer. It would be transmitted in a smaller number of moves, thus less likely to mutate. As it is though we are forcing it though narrower channels of transmission (by social distancing etc), from person, to person, to person etc, giving it much more chance to change. Of course there is no way of doing this safely though. And then we have absolutely no influence when it lands abroad in much larger populations who often have no choice but to carry on, and there we are with another variant, with quite a possibility it will change enough to be a problem.

I honestly believe that the only sensible use of vaccines is for the most vulnerable, to do our best in an out of control situation.

I'm surprised that you don't know anyone with asthma when there's millions around the country. They are most likely to get flu jabs in my circle.

@SEmyarse

And I really resent being bundled in with 'loons'. I've got no theories about microchips or lizards or anything.

If someone could explain to me why we're not going to be right back here in a few months when immunity has worn off, I would be really grateful and I'd go off and have the jab. I really don't want to be party to prolonging this whole mess unnecessarily (and taking admittedly very small risks in the process).

They will be working on other vaccines for differing strains as they progress I guess Much like flu jabs and various other health conditions.

@SEmyarse

I do agree that the objective of vaccinating the whole world is a great one, but it really is not possible.

Not with the loons aye

@Ducksarenotmyfriends

Op if you work in the gig economy and are struggling have you thought about joining iwgb.org.uk/ they're a union for gig economy/insecure workers.

I really don't understand your reasons for refusing the vaccine though - if you think it won't work then what's the harm in having it anyway? Surely a chance of it working must be better than nothing? I'd go with the science on this one. Also my preschool dc have been offered (and we've taken) the flu vaccine annually, the gp sends out a letter every year. It's pretty normal. I've had a close family member hospitalised and nearly die from the flu so we take it pretty seriously.

Hermes don't recognise that union, they do recognise the gmb though, who in partnership set up the se plus thing. There are huge flaws to this, and the gmb appear to be in their pocket but it's better than what we had

I will really pissed off if we end up in a lockdown because people find stupid reasons not to vaccinated. (I am happy to protect people for genuine reasons)

I am in awe of the scientists who have worked tirelessly to develop these vaccines over a year. They are incredible.

I think you are very Unknowledgeable about vaccines and should keep your ill informed thoughts to yourself.

@ForThePurposeOfTheTape

OP- so you had tax credits subsidize morning childcare when your kids were 3ish. How did you work the rest of the time? Did your kids sit in the car while you delivered packages? We have a lot of internet packages delivered here and never seen kids in the car. Did your h look after the kids? A stay at home parent isn't unusual but hardly universal.

It's really really common for kids to go with Hermes couriers. There are several at our depot now. I have done it myself, but only in the short term. It was different at different times but mostly I'd drop a child at playgroup, deliver for 3 hours, go back and pick them up to drop them home where they'd sleep for a couple of hours. In my first marriage, my husband would have been home anyway, so I could go straight back out and deliver. In my second marriage, I stay until dh came home and then go back out to deliver. It's harder to be this flexible now due to ETAs, but people still do it. I know one lady who 'homeschools' her child, but basically has him in the cab all day on an iPad. Not ideal imo.

If someone could explain to me why we're not going to be right back here in a few months when immunity has worn off, I would be really grateful and I'd go off and have the jab. I really don't want to be party to prolonging this whole mess unnecessarily (and taking admittedly very small risks in the process).

If you know how long the effects of jabs last then you know more than the scientists

Having a jab means you're less likely to end up in hospital with Covid and less likely to transmit it to others. Less transmission in the UK is going to keep the R under control and protect those who can not have the jab.

Scientists are still learning about COVID-19. As knowledge improves, vaccines, treatments and safety measures can improve. Over time they may be able to predict who the virus behaves in the same way that scientists try to predict which strain of flu will be doing the rounds.

If you are scared of ICU like you say you are then the jab is a no-brainer imo. There's loads of evidence that if a vaccinated person catches Covid then it'll be mild and unlikely to need hospital treatment. Do you have any risk factors like diabetes or extra body weight?

The OP’s ‘reasoning’ doesn’t stand up to much scrutiny here. So because we’re unlikely to achieve perfection
(whole world vaxxed against all possible variants, forever) then she doesn’t want to bother?

Makes absolutely no sense.

The more people who have it now, the lower numbers go, pressure on hospitals is taken off, serious illness greatly reduced, ditto deaths, transmission is lowered, chances of new variants emerging minimised.

What’s not to like?

Yes we may need boosters, yes new variants could be problematic, but what’s the alternative?

If everyone refused, as the OP seems to want to, then we’ve massive growth, illness, cases, hospitals buckling, more lockdowns. Why is that preferable?

OP, it’s a little odd that you’re not engaging with any of the information people have been giving you about the issues you’re concerned about around the vaccines such as duration of immunity (where did you get ‘a few months’ from?), how variants arise, vaccination in poorer countries, etc. Why is that?

But here’s a figure worth celebrating. In the mere months that vaccines have been available,1.5 billion doses have been administered.

500 million - half a billion, fully a third - have been administered in the last 23 days.

And more vaccine manufacturing capacity is coming on line.

And more countries and agencies are gearing up for mass vaccination in every single country.

It’s an extraordinary achievement and there is much to be hopeful about.

If you don’t want to have it because you think it’s wrong to have it just for personal protection then why have you had all of the other vaccinations you’ve mentioned you’ve had-when surely they were for personal protection too-plus having the added bonus of helping others? So why the fuck wouldn’t you?
Or are you just being goady?

Or are you just being goady?

I suspect the OP feels uncomfortable about it in a way she can’t articulate, so is trying to justify herself. But it doesn’t make much sense.

I can't believe OP doesn't know about flu vaccinations. In the season, there are billboards everywhere advertising it.

OP - you’re being really quite measured and detailed when it comes to responding to queries re your job. And then coming across as all over the place and clueless when it comes to everything else. You’re responding robustly re a Hermes, but not really responding to specific information re anything else.

It’s really quite jarring the difference in your posting style.

And I’m flummoxed that your SIL can deliver 3 children in 4 years and has never heard of the flu jab.

Please, take the time to read through the detailed responses on here. Look at some graphs showing the drop in hospitalisation sand deaths since the vaccine rollout started. And read up a bit on the flu vaccine programme!

Another Armchair scientist. Yawn.

You had no idea that it's advisable to make provision for your old age and thought you could just rely on the state pension?

....

OP I think I've worked out the heart of your worry. You think because covid mutates that we'll never be vaccinating enough people against the mutations? You do realise none of the mutations to date are resistant to the vaccine right? So it can mutate and the vaccine still protects us. It's also perfectly feasible to maintain global vaccination rates at a level that prevents health care melt-down. We don't need to have 100% population vaccinated 100% of the time. Just enough on a rolling basis to ensure it doesn't get out of control amongst the most vulnerable groups. HTH.

@Furries

OP - you’re being really quite measured and detailed when it comes to responding to queries re your job. And then coming across as all over the place and clueless when it comes to everything else. You’re responding robustly re a Hermes, but not really responding to specific information re anything else.

It’s really quite jarring the difference in your posting style.

And I’m flummoxed that your SIL can deliver 3 children in 4 years and has never heard of the flu jab.

Please, take the time to read through the detailed responses on here. Look at some graphs showing the drop in hospitalisation sand deaths since the vaccine rollout started. And read up a bit on the flu vaccine programme!

Odd isn't it? So articulate and knowledgeable in some areas, a complete div in others.

Whoever doesn't want the jab doesn't have to take it. There is no need to give elaborate justifications to anyone

There is an absolute wealth of information on how the vaccines are expected to perform but I don’t think you even know what discussion it is you want. I think you probably need to go right back to basics and understand how the use of vaccines has developed over the last century and how they’ve been used strategically.

In the absence of an irl chance to discuss this in depth with a professional (which is what I think you should do if the opportunity presents itself) just don’t get the vaccine. I suspect there is nothing anyone can write here that will give you what you want so abstain and observe.

Probably also worth looking into why the ‘novel’ part of a novel virus is a problem too.

The frothing at the mouth in rage at anyone that doesn't share the pro vaccine stance is pathetic to see but not surprising. You have to remember the average IQ of the human race is only 100, billions of people follow religions where angels float around and believe it holding a straight face .. as yet we haven't evolved particularly far as a species sadly.

To summarise we have a virus so deadly that the vast majority don't even know they have it needing to be tested in order to ascertain if they have it with an average age of death above natural life expectancy. Young people are effectively being told/bullied into having a vaccine that has a small chance of causing serious harm giving up body autonomy despite these same bullies stating " It shouldn't be mandatory". When any post that doesn't carry on the insane propaganda of take the vaccine or you're the anti christ it gets deleted meaning any debate/conversation is stopped so what is the point of a forum? Disgusting stuff reminiscent of george Orwells 1984 rather than a free society but no surprise

Incidentally, what do people think will happen when the immunity from the jab fades over time? Presumably everyone will be happy to get jabs for the next few years putting up with potential side effects?

With regards to closing down borders, it's highly unlikely closing down the borders would have made any difference when for eg we have 1.4 million people from an Indian background in the Uk as Uk citizens.. implying that closing down travel would have made much difference in our country which is one of the most culturally diverse ones in the world is laughable.

@katylees, if you can make sense of the OP's stance on vaccines then do please share it