To refuse the vaccine for this reason

[SEmyarse]

Goodness know why I'm doing this since I'm most averse to being flamed and I'm going to get grilled alive.

My reason being that I don't think that it will work. I don't mean the vaccine itself, I have no specialist knowledge. I mean the whole strategy of vaccinating everyone.

So we're told that the vaccine is good for personal protection. Got it - no-one wants to die of this nasty disease.
And then we're told that its good to protect those around us. Absolutely got it - even if there's a possibility of nasty side effects, I'm not important in the grand scheme, it's a risk assessment for everyone's benefit.

So of course I'd get the vaccine if those were the only considerations.
But surely that only works if we're isolated from the rest of the world. I know there's been lots of talk of helping poorer countries with their vaccine programmes, but really? We're expecting countries who struggle with persistent poverty, illness, war to prioritise this? It's just not going to happen is it? I just can't see it. And it really feels like we're just doing it to stop them giving it back to us.

And even within our own country, and even with our apparently very successful roll-out, I can't see this being sustainable. We already know that it's going to have to be repeated very frequently. Volunteers won't do it forever, halls etc can't be commandeered forever can they? The numbers are way bigger than the flu scheme.

So then we're back to risk assessment. I'm still not massively bothered by the possibility of side effects, but it does seem unwise to take it if I genuinely don't believe it will work or make things better.

In fact I'd go so far as to say that I'm concerned it's going to make things worse. If there was any way of having the young catch it in fairly quick succession, so from a super spreader, surely that would be safer. It would be transmitted in a smaller number of moves, thus less likely to mutate. As it is though we are forcing it though narrower channels of transmission (by social distancing etc), from person, to person, to person etc, giving it much more chance to change. Of course there is no way of doing this safely though. And then we have absolutely no influence when it lands abroad in much larger populations who often have no choice but to carry on, and there we are with another variant, with quite a possibility it will change enough to be a problem.

I honestly believe that the only sensible use of vaccines is for the most vulnerable, to do our best in an out of control situation.

I have paid to have a flu jab at my local pharmacy. My husband's work pays for them all to have flu jabs
My children have been vaccinated against flu at school.

As for Covid- there isn't a guarantee that it will work. However it will work better than nothing. And we don't know unless we try. I am quite happy to pay each year for a vaccine if it goes the way of flu.

Also we can have the jab to protect ourselves and protect others.

@FightingFiles

If only it was possible for people to get just a tiny dose of the possibly deadly, sometimes disabling, often horrible virus that's going round. But just a little bit so you don't get dead/disabled/off your feet for a week or three. Just enough to get your immune system to recognise it. Just enough so you could fight it off like a headcold and not pass it on. Then maybe it wouldn't be as bad for the whole country.

But how could we do that

I fear your irony will be lost here.

@SEmyarse

Flus do mutate, and I'm aware there's a vaccination program but I've never been offered the jab so I assume it's just the vulnerable.

ANYONE can have the flu vaccination, any year. It is available to absolutely anyone and can be got at most surgeries, clinics, local pharmacists, etc.

What you mean is you haven't been offered a FREE vaccine - these are given to the more vulnerable, plus children.

However, for about £10 you can have the flu vaccine any time.
We pay for 19y Dd to have one every year. She chooses to do so after getting a nasty bout one year over exam time and wanted to reduce the chances in future, I am eligible for a free one due to a health condition and medication. Dh will be paying for one this autumn, his work often arranged them to come into the office to sort.

Erm, have you seen the figures? The massive and steady drop in cases since January? Vaccines did that.

@SEmyarse

Why are you all so convinced that this will work in the longterm?

We don't necessarily, but the scientists who are much much more knowledgable that I am all advise getting the vaccine.

The boosters are different. This is currently a mass vaccination programme to reduce cases amongst the population to help bring them right down, especially the serious cases.

The booster programme will be when that part is less needed, after vaccine efficiency has been considered further and to ensure the more vulnerable (who often have weaker immune systems so vaccines aren't necessarily as effective for them personally) have a better chance.

@SEmyarse

My SIL gave birth last week for the third time in 4 years and said she's never been offered it.

She must have not been paying attention then. All pregnant women are offered flu jabs. Midwives talk to you about it at your booking in appointment. It’s mentioned in your notes. Healthcare professionals constantly ask if you have had it. My hospital even do drop in sessions for pregnant women and talk about it all over social media urging women to get vaccinated. Every time I went to an appointment I was asked if I had had my flu jab. When I went to hospital for scans there were posters in the waiting room reminding pregnant women to get the flu jab. I think I was even given a leaflet detailing the benefits of flu jabs. I gave birth a few months ago.

Op if you work in the gig economy and are struggling have you thought about joining iwgb.org.uk/ they're a union for gig economy/insecure workers.

I really don't understand your reasons for refusing the vaccine though - if you think it won't work then what's the harm in having it anyway? Surely a chance of it working must be better than nothing? I'd go with the science on this one. Also my preschool dc have been offered (and we've taken) the flu vaccine annually, the gp sends out a letter every year. It's pretty normal. I've had a close family member hospitalised and nearly die from the flu so we take it pretty seriously.

I would say that when one is so ignorant of the world and the way things work it is incumbent upon one to follow the advice of those who are more educated, or to educate oneself, rather than make half baked decisions based on nothing at all.

metro.co.uk/2021/05/17/more-than-2300-cases-of-indian-covid-variant-have-been-found-in-uk-14596846/

There's lots of evidence in countries with an advanced vaccination programme of a string link between hospitalization and refusing the jab. (This isn't a criticism of those who can't have the vaccine btw)

Might be repeating the point but all primary school kids get offered a free flu jab every year- consent form in school bag.
If you go to a GP surgery around September there are posters everywhere offering the flu jab free to over 65s.

@SEmyarse

Flus do mutate, and I'm aware there's a vaccination program but I've never been offered the jab so I assume it's just the vulnerable.

No one is stopping you from making an appointment at Boots for a private one. Some employers even fund them.

@SEmyarse

My SIL gave birth last week for the third time in 4 years and said she's never been offered it.

The only way that can be true is if she means nobody ever actually approached her with a needle in hand and offered to inject there and then at another appointment.

It is mentioned repeatedly at antenatal appointments but you have to go and get it organised yourself. First time I went to my GP, second time I popped to Boots at lunchtime.

OP- so you had tax credits subsidize morning childcare when your kids were 3ish. How did you work the rest of the time? Did your kids sit in the car while you delivered packages? We have a lot of internet packages delivered here and never seen kids in the car.
Did your h look after the kids? A stay at home parent isn't unusual but hardly universal.

Sadly OP, you sound scarily undereducated.

Please do us all a favour, accept that you don't know very much and just get your vaccination.

Thanks.

@SEmyarse

You don't have to repeatedly vaccinate for smallpox

No, but other vaccines DO have boosters.

The jabs a baby has at a few months old all have a booster - normally done just before school age,

Tetanus needs boosters.

If you travel to certain countries then Yellow fever needs doing again after 10 years.

Many are just sort of the normal vaccination programme, such as the 4 in 1 jab and booster.
Others are often just dine as required - many people have a tetanus booster if they getting an animal bite, for example.

I'm not really buying the faux-bewildered act here, OP. What you have written in your OP (bizarre and incomprehensible as your theories are) and your postulations on parliamentary reports on the workplace, lead me to think that you perfectly capable of understanding these things, it just gives you a weird thrill to act naive and bewildered for some reason.

YABU it's people like you putting us at risk of delayed 'freedom' because you're the ones going to end up in hospital putting on the NHS.

@SEmyarse

So as far as I can tell people are happy to vaccinate so they don't catch it in the short term, and don't give it to others in the short term.

But then long term we'll just give boosters to the vulnerable, and most of us will have worn off immunity. so why not do that now?

The only possible reason would be if there's likely to be significantly better treatment in the future.

Early days for all your speculation I think

@Whitchurch

Oh - and why didn't you post this in the bloody covid board?

😂

The strategies for managing the virus have only ever been about reducing the number of people needing hospital treatment. Many people have died and that is a tragedy for their friends and family but that has not been the main concern of national government. The truth is dead people don't use healthcare resources and if you're feeling really ill but at home in your own bed then you are not a problem for the government. Some people might not like to hear that but it's really what it all boils down to.

At our peak there were 40,000 people in hospital and 4000 on ventilators which meant there was little capacity for anything other than covid, this is not a sustainable situation.

I have no control over anyone else and I'm not in a position to dictate how governments manage the pandemic but I can take responsibility for getting the vaccine to reduce the risk of contracting the virus and needing hospital treatment or passing the virus on to someone who may need hospital treatment.

If it is a moral question for you then I think you have an obligation to do the best you can not become seriously ill or to make other people seriously ill and that means having the vaccine to keep resources available to treat other health issues.

Mutations do and will happen but usually viruses become less deadly as they become more easily transmissible. Covid will become like the flu when it is no longer a novel virus, the current problem is because the human race has not previously been exposed to this virus. We are 18 months into the pandemic and about 6 months into the vaccination program we really don't have sufficient data about how long immunity from infection or vaccine will last and shouldn't be using speculation about it to refuse the vaccine on the basis we believe it is short term and therefore pointless.

I'm surprised you are prepared to run the risk of serious illness when maintaining your income relies on you not being off work sick and you have you have dependents to provide for.

I think you just be living in a very odd bubble of reality OP.

I just can't get my head around the fact you've not known about fly vaccines and don't know anyone who's had one - ever.

I'm 50 - I had my first fly vaccine aged 25 (asthma). My parents both had it every year due decades.
My teen son (asthma) has it every year too.
My neices in their 20's are not vulnerable but they pay around £10 to have a jab at the pharmacy or students union.

I am literally nagged and nagged by my gp surgery until I book my flu jab. It's so busy every year that the queue often shakes around the block.

HOW do you know no-one who's not only not had it but never heard of it?

It's not at all new
It's not rare
It's heavily promoted.

???

*flu

Although I wish their was a fly vaccine as I hate the buzzing bastards.

Was going to ask for more info about the 'fly' vaccine and if it included mosquitos .

@SEmyarse

Haha, bizarrely I had whooping cough as a child! Had to be quarantined for 6 weeks.

This regular flu jab thing has given me a lot to think about. I had NO IDEA that we did regular jabs for people. Maybe it is possible to vaccinate loads of people all the time then. I thought past childhood it was a completely new idea to vaccinate adults.

I'm 50,my parents have had flu jabs for the last few years, I'm offered it free through my workplace or I can pay for it at any pharmacy. It's advertised on the telly! Vaccinating adults is a real, actual thing in 21st century Britain.