To refuse the vaccine for this reason

[SEmyarse]

Goodness know why I'm doing this since I'm most averse to being flamed and I'm going to get grilled alive.

My reason being that I don't think that it will work. I don't mean the vaccine itself, I have no specialist knowledge. I mean the whole strategy of vaccinating everyone.

So we're told that the vaccine is good for personal protection. Got it - no-one wants to die of this nasty disease.
And then we're told that its good to protect those around us. Absolutely got it - even if there's a possibility of nasty side effects, I'm not important in the grand scheme, it's a risk assessment for everyone's benefit.

So of course I'd get the vaccine if those were the only considerations.
But surely that only works if we're isolated from the rest of the world. I know there's been lots of talk of helping poorer countries with their vaccine programmes, but really? We're expecting countries who struggle with persistent poverty, illness, war to prioritise this? It's just not going to happen is it? I just can't see it. And it really feels like we're just doing it to stop them giving it back to us.

And even within our own country, and even with our apparently very successful roll-out, I can't see this being sustainable. We already know that it's going to have to be repeated very frequently. Volunteers won't do it forever, halls etc can't be commandeered forever can they? The numbers are way bigger than the flu scheme.

So then we're back to risk assessment. I'm still not massively bothered by the possibility of side effects, but it does seem unwise to take it if I genuinely don't believe it will work or make things better.

In fact I'd go so far as to say that I'm concerned it's going to make things worse. If there was any way of having the young catch it in fairly quick succession, so from a super spreader, surely that would be safer. It would be transmitted in a smaller number of moves, thus less likely to mutate. As it is though we are forcing it though narrower channels of transmission (by social distancing etc), from person, to person, to person etc, giving it much more chance to change. Of course there is no way of doing this safely though. And then we have absolutely no influence when it lands abroad in much larger populations who often have no choice but to carry on, and there we are with another variant, with quite a possibility it will change enough to be a problem.

I honestly believe that the only sensible use of vaccines is for the most vulnerable, to do our best in an out of control situation.

Why would I lie?

I have no idea why I'm bothered that you think I'm lying, but I am (bothered).

@SEmyarse

I'm aware it's insane to risk ICU (or worse), but I've definitely got to the point where it is SO important that I feel I've done the right thing, that yes I might have to risk my life (however over the top that sounds).

I’m just going to go ahead and assume you’re a troll because it’s easier than believing someone can be this stupid.

Op

I haven’t RTFT.

No one knows what will “work” in the long term. It depends what you mean by “work”?

If you mean eradicate the sars-cov-2 virus as if it had never existed, turn back the clock and resume normal life ? That’s not going to happen.

If you mean protect the maximum number of people and prevent ongoing economic chaos while we attempt to live some semblance of a normal life (kids in school, exams being held, universities opening amd students able to study, seeing friends and family - even those that live abroad, going to work, accessing medical care, visiting old people in nursing homes etc) while we figure out how to live with this? Then as many people as possible getting vaccinated is part of that. They give us breathing room (literally) while we work out where to go next.

But it feels like totally the wrong thing to get the vaccine if I feel it's just for personal protection.

I’ve never read anything quite so ignorant and stupid.

YABU. Totally

Yesterday 20:37 SEmyarse

My (current ) husband is 57, my mum's in her 70s. I have 3 kids. Why have I never heard of any of these gettng a flu vaccine? Totally confused since everyone seems to think it's a thing.“

It’s been a thing for donkey’s years. It’s free to over fifties now. Surprised your (current) husband didn’t tell you when he was invited.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000w6s5

Worth a watch OP. See if you can draw any parallels.

It feels a bit like you're relying on other people making the responsible choice and getting vaccinated to save you the bother or any risk. If everyone had such a selfish attitude we would still be in the mess we were in in January.

oP, as you will be aware from the posters on this thread, everyone who doesn’t get vaccinated against covid is going to end up in ICU sucking on oxygen.

I realise I have wasted some oxygen pointing this out .

Never heard of anyone getting the flu vaccine??!

I’m 43 and had a free flu shot at my GP’s surgery this year. I was one of dozens of people getting it at the same time in a dedicated flu vaccine surgery, that ran for a number of weeks. In normal times I get one annually via work.

Is this for real??

*Just to get ridiculed some more - another thing that comes up often on here is childcare. Don't panic, I do know it exists! But in my experience it's a morning in playgroup for preschoolers, and if you need anything further then family and friends might help out if possible.

On here it is clearly obvious that people consider it normal to pay thousands all the time. I just don't know anyone who could possibly have afforded to do so, so it's not normal to me*

But this doesn’t explain why you wouldn’t know things like flu vaccines, pensions and maternity leave exist. You understand enough around you to know that some people have different experiences to you. Surely you would have seen and read things (tv programs, news, the internet, advertising etc) that talked about these things.

Ugh... bold fail

Just read the OP what a load of shite

All children have the nasal flu vaccination so it's rubbish not to know about flu vaccines.

What more can I say about flu vaccines? I've just not come across them, I've heard it mentioned (mainly on here, but occasionally in real life), but had assumed it must be just for very specific people since I don't know anyone who's had one (not that they've mentioned and I asked quite a few last night), and my first husband was very severely disabled, and I don't recall him being offered one. I'm still in touch with an ex-carer and he doesn't remember it either.

Pensions to me was just a word for 'old people benefits'. I didn't ask any further, since I assumed it was only relevant when old. I didn't know you were supposed to do something when young.

And I simply had no idea about maternity leave or pay at all. I just assumed that you were supposed to figure out how to get finances yourself, and due to my first husband's disability, for the first 2 children we were already partially on benefits anyway. You can imagine my shock discovering that my SIL, who's had 3 children in quick succession, could just hang onto her job AND get paid when she's hardly been there these last few years.

On here it is clearly obvious that people consider it normal to pay thousands all the time. I just don't know anyone who could possibly have afforded to do so, so it's not normal to me.

If you're on a low income, the government pays up to 70% of the childcare bill. Have you heard of Tax Credits?

Over 3s (over 2s if you're low income) get some free childcare hours too. I have teens and it was 15 hours a week during term time for them (30 hours a week now)

Has your mum not been offered a flu jab @SEmyarse, she is in the age bracket to been offered it routinely.

In respect of your children having been offered it, they may just be too old to have missed the jabs now offered. DS is 16 and has never had flu jab/nasal spray. I think when he was at Primary School it was only offered to children who had underlying health conditions rather than all children in certain age groups.

Yes, i was on tax credits for many years, and claimed help with the mornings of playgroup mentioned. I just don't seem to move in circles where anyone does any more than that. People on here chuck about words like childminder, breakfast club etc as if it's completely normal for them

But it's not for me, I would never have looked into more extensive childcare because it's just not something that exists in my world. I'm trying to work out why this is. I also thought nannies were just in history/films/books!! (and boarding school).

We've gone massively off topic (a good thing tbh), but thanks to everyone that has given me constructive links etc

Given that you don't know of anyone who has had a flu jab, and don't know what a pension is I can't really take your view on vaccines seriously. Sorry.

I cant work out if this is real or not!

Anyway yes you are right in the sense that if there were a limited supply of vaccines the most vulnerable should be prioritised which they were.

Once they are done, the best way to protect them is to have a vaccine yourself. By not having one you are actually risking those you are trying to help.

Now of course there is an argument about the rest of the world but your argument there is just odd and to be honest the vaccines we use

As for boosters - no one knows but as there is a pretty effective flu vaccination programme (and this is where I cant believe you arent aware children are included in this) it wont be as difficult.

In short the right thing to do now is get a vaccine - if you are offered you are the one who needs it

My mum said she has NOT ever had the flu jab, or been offered BUT she can be a little .... unreliable?? So who knows?

But I absolutely cannot find anyone younger that thinks that regular flu jabs through workplaces etc is a thing. They all seem as surprised as me.

My SIL gave birth last week for the third time in 4 years and said she's never been offered it.

Do you know anyone in healthcare, they should be offered the flu jab?

So do you think everyone else is incorrect @SEmyarse?

You've had plenty of good quality replies, has it clarified anything?

Given that there are clearly lots of things that have passed you by for whatever reason, what makes you think that you should take a chance on this and ignore what all the doctors and scientists are saying, which is to have the vaccine?

Is it not more likely that you've misunderstood something and so are drawing conclusions based on bad input? If everyone around you is telling you to have the vaccine, even if you don't/can't understand why, wouldn't it be a good idea to trust that they know what they're talking about and wouldn't be so strongly recommending something that is a dangerous thing for society in general?

Even if you're right and it's only for short term gain, that's still several months you won't get or pass on the virus, which gives time for numbers to fall even further and reduces the risk that you'll come into contact with an infected person once your immunity wears off (if it does, etc) So why wouldn't you do that? Even if it doesn't last longer than that, which experts think it will.

If only it was possible for people to get just a tiny dose of the possibly deadly, sometimes disabling, often horrible virus that's going round. But just a little bit so you don't get dead/disabled/off your feet for a week or three. Just enough to get your immune system to recognise it. Just enough so you could fight it off like a headcold and not pass it on. Then maybe it wouldn't be as bad for the whole country.

But how could we do that