To refuse the vaccine for this reason

[SEmyarse]

Goodness know why I'm doing this since I'm most averse to being flamed and I'm going to get grilled alive.

My reason being that I don't think that it will work. I don't mean the vaccine itself, I have no specialist knowledge. I mean the whole strategy of vaccinating everyone.

So we're told that the vaccine is good for personal protection. Got it - no-one wants to die of this nasty disease.
And then we're told that its good to protect those around us. Absolutely got it - even if there's a possibility of nasty side effects, I'm not important in the grand scheme, it's a risk assessment for everyone's benefit.

So of course I'd get the vaccine if those were the only considerations.
But surely that only works if we're isolated from the rest of the world. I know there's been lots of talk of helping poorer countries with their vaccine programmes, but really? We're expecting countries who struggle with persistent poverty, illness, war to prioritise this? It's just not going to happen is it? I just can't see it. And it really feels like we're just doing it to stop them giving it back to us.

And even within our own country, and even with our apparently very successful roll-out, I can't see this being sustainable. We already know that it's going to have to be repeated very frequently. Volunteers won't do it forever, halls etc can't be commandeered forever can they? The numbers are way bigger than the flu scheme.

So then we're back to risk assessment. I'm still not massively bothered by the possibility of side effects, but it does seem unwise to take it if I genuinely don't believe it will work or make things better.

In fact I'd go so far as to say that I'm concerned it's going to make things worse. If there was any way of having the young catch it in fairly quick succession, so from a super spreader, surely that would be safer. It would be transmitted in a smaller number of moves, thus less likely to mutate. As it is though we are forcing it though narrower channels of transmission (by social distancing etc), from person, to person, to person etc, giving it much more chance to change. Of course there is no way of doing this safely though. And then we have absolutely no influence when it lands abroad in much larger populations who often have no choice but to carry on, and there we are with another variant, with quite a possibility it will change enough to be a problem.

I honestly believe that the only sensible use of vaccines is for the most vulnerable, to do our best in an out of control situation.

woman who didn't know pensions, maternity leave and flu shots existed thinks she knows more about covid vaccine than the world's immunologists and epidemiologists and public health specialists.

right.

Smallpox & TB were practically wiped out by vaccines

Smallpox yes,but not TB. It is one of the biggest 3 infectious disease killers worldwide (along with HIV and malaria). (Covid might have overtaken it now of course).
Why is that? Because the TB vaccine is actually very poor and doesn't work well. TB declined in developed countries mainly due to better nutrition, general health and housing. TB is still common in the UK amongst the homeless population. And in developing countries where housing and nutrition are less good than here.
Funny coincidence that the biggest 3 killer infections worldwide are those without effective vaccines!

@SEmyarse

I guess most people wouldn't tell me if they'd had a flu jab, but I'm now frantically texting relatives and I've yet to find anyone who has.

This is definitely odd, since you all think it's widespread.

We don't think it OP we KNOW it. The flu campaign has been a huge thing for many many years, do you live on Mars?

@SEmyarse try look at it like this...

It's not possible to vaccinate 100% of the UK population, because some may choose NOT to have the vaccine.

BUT - our NHS have rolled out a superbly impressive programme meaning that 5 months in from the very first vaccination given, my family have all had their first, and most have had their second vaccines.

It's highly likely there will need to be at LEAST annual boosters, particularly for the more vulnerable but we're not at the point yet where we can say 'this vaccine lasts for 8 months only'.... time will tell on that one.

If I were you, I'd get the first 2 vaccines out the way with, and then have a ponder about this later down the line when we know more about how long the vaccines may last. It protects you, at the very least, until then.

Why are you concerned that booster vaccinations for COVID might be needed in future years @SEmyarse? And how does that affect your decision whether to have the vaccine now or not?

I'm trying to understand your logic. Do you think there is some reason why it would be bad to have multiple boosters?

@SEmyarse

I'm starting to feel like I must be on the moon too. No, i've never seen flu jabs advertised.

You make it sound like NON-vulnerable are getting them too. Why would you do that? and some people get them at work? do you all club together for a jabber to come in?

I don't know why people would get the flu vaccination OP.... Maybe they just don't want to have.... The Flu?? Crazy huh?

This is quite surreal. OP, don’t get the jab if you don’t fancy protection from COVID killing you and reducing transmission to others. Just don’t tell us science led you there. It clearly didn’t.

Lots of people get the flu jab. It is a way of minimising the risk of getting flu.

Only up to page 3 so far - and I will read the rest.

But Jesus, Mary, Joseph, The Wee Donkey and my flipping diminishing sanity!

And you’re being U twice over - use the coronavirus board for your interesting musings.

This is entirely different since it is of very marginal benefit/risk to myself, and I'm not clear it's a good idea for society in the long run.

No you’re right OP let’s spend the next few years going in and out of lockdowns first Covid because people can’t be arsed to have a jab

In fairness to the OP I have just read the bit about 300 Hermes drops a day for over a year without a holiday so perhaps she is a bit knackered and her brain has forgotten about flu jabs, mat leave and pensions...

@Barbadosgirl
If you read my previous posts regards Hermes, there is a fair bit of misinformation there too. OP seems confused on a lot of fronts.

@SEmyarse

Massive tangent, but yeah I do have a bit of a habit of things flying straight past me. I didn't know that maternity leave was a thing until I was on mums net and that was MILES after I'd had my kids.

Also only recently discovered the existence of pensions.

Well done OP - you’ve managed 2.5 hours of completely nonsensical posts, and everyone has still been polite enough to respond. Pretty good going (and I’m not quite at the end yet).

Think we can all sleep well knowing that you aren’t really this totally clueless.

Hopefully this thread will stay up. If anything, it’s good brain training trying to follow and make sense of various combinations of words.

@SEmyarse

My (current ) husband is 57, my mum's in her 70s. I have 3 kids. Why have I never heard of any of these gettng a flu vaccine? Totally confused since everyone seems to think it's a thing.

Is this serious?

'Yes, very low cases is a good objective. But do you really think this is possible?'

No, not without vaccination. And your point is...?

OP -

The AZ vaccine was developed for the express purpose of being cheap and easy for poorer countries to use. Yep, we (the wealthy) will prioritise helping poorer nations because it's in our interest to do os.

Yes we can manage to jab everyone with a needle every autumn. It's a pain, but it's not fighting WW2 or building the pyramids.

No, we have no reason to think a herd immunity policy would work sadly. Our government had hope for that as did one or two others, but the pressure on the health service made it impossible to continue.

All medicines have side effects, mostly we hardly think about it - the vaccines have been subject to more scrutiny than any other medical treatment on earth. They work pretty well, the risks are low, they will be tweaked to get better and less risky.

It sounds like you are anxious and overthinking, which is very understandable in these testing times. But right now, vaccines, vaccine passports, social distancing and keeping a lid on international travel are the best ways to get us off our knees, economically and emotionally.

This thread just has to be a wind up.

The OP is coming out with ever more bizarre bullshit. Every single post.

Surely nobody is this ill-informed and clueless!

OP my brother was part of the vaccine trial. He has been 'unblinded' and told he DID get the vaccine 14 months ago. He is tested bi-weekly and his immunity is high, not dropped at all.

And the vax programne is not aiming to eradicate covid...WE ALL GET THAT WON'T HAPPEN. It's to stop people dying. If you catch it you have 33% chance of no symptoms.

Please get the vax.

You clearly don’t understand epidemiology- I suggest you listen to those who do.

there was an eradication vaccine I would take it

No vaccination will ever be an eradication vaccine if people don’t take it

[quote HerMammy]@Barbadosgirl
If you read my previous posts regards Hermes, there is a fair bit of misinformation there too. OP seems confused on a lot of fronts.[/quote]
Just need to respond to this one.

There was a parliamentary resport done in 2016 by Frank Field mp called wild west workplace, I was heavily involved in submitting evidence. Following this a tribunal was taken up on behalf of 194 couriers (including myself) to prove that we're not self-employed really. We won and were awarded back holiday pay.

However, I was bullied out in the interim, so although I won rights I couldn't use them. I then worked for Amazon (nightmare) and Yodel (not enough money) before moving house and going back to Hermes (yes weirdly they took me back).

In between, Hermes had teamed up with the GMB to creat SE plus status, which was better but no-man's land and cost people a lot in rate cuts. Many people were prevented from changing over for a long time, and i was in the unique position of technically having a worker (limb b) contract but being unable to activate it. I have only recently sorted this out, and have worked every day since moving house (literally the following morning) July 2019, although mostly not sundays.

This is something I DO know a lot about. Anyone with a spouse working for hermes will know how slippery they are. Packet racket, anyone?

Tell us more OP, is there any other normal thing that you were completely oblivious to?

This thread is just bollocks really, totally jumped the shark with never having heard of maternity pay!

@SEmyarse

You'll all be pleased to know that I've never posted on any other social media (and not on here for years) so I won't be preaching anywhere.

Only my husband knows my views, I don't like having a public profile.
I have posted because I'm so very troubled by my thoughts on the vaccine programme, and was hoping I'd be able to see why everyone has such faith in it.

A couple of pepole have given me food for thought. Most have called me stupid, which tbh is probably pretty accurate, and the core of my problem. I just can't have the vaccine until I feel it's the right thing to do.

It's a massive moral decision. I would feel horrendous if I gave it to someone vulnerable, but I don't feel like that's the big picture at all.

Try watching this for a discussion of the ethics of it...aimed at A-level students so should be accessible

vimeo.com/543654636

Webinar from the Religious Studies and theology dept at Chester Uni on the ethics of vaccine allocation- they discuss Kantian & Utilitarian approaches

OP you've applied what you think is logic but it isn't its assumption based extrapolation from an incredibly narrow view of the world. You've taken what you can see of a tiny view and made wide ranging assumptions about the situation and internalised them as logical fact when it's based on limited evidence.

You can't reason this through because you don't have all the information.

I don't think you are stupid but you are trying to work through a theory without recognising you don't have enough world view to understand it.

@alwayscrashinginthesamecar1

Tell us more OP, is there any other normal thing that you were completely oblivious to?

This thread is just bollocks really, totally jumped the shark with never having heard of maternity pay!

Er, how would I know?

I thought I'd spend the night worrying about vaccines, but have actually spent the night wondering why my life experience is apparently so dramatically different from what''s considered the norm on here.

Just to get ridiculed some more - another thing that comes up often on here is childcare. Don't panic, I do know it exists! But in my experience it's a morning in playgroup for preschoolers, and if you need anything further then family and friends might help out if possible.

On here it is clearly obvious that people consider it normal to pay thousands all the time. I just don't know anyone who could possibly have afforded to do so, so it's not normal to me.

@Kyph

I've noticed that as vaccine refusal becomes less and less tolerated the vaccine refusers are coming up with stranger excuses to justify themselves.

They lie awake at night thinking of more and more unlikely and bonkers scenarios to entertain us with. It's getting tedious.