To refuse the vaccine for this reason

[SEmyarse]

Goodness know why I'm doing this since I'm most averse to being flamed and I'm going to get grilled alive.

My reason being that I don't think that it will work. I don't mean the vaccine itself, I have no specialist knowledge. I mean the whole strategy of vaccinating everyone.

So we're told that the vaccine is good for personal protection. Got it - no-one wants to die of this nasty disease.
And then we're told that its good to protect those around us. Absolutely got it - even if there's a possibility of nasty side effects, I'm not important in the grand scheme, it's a risk assessment for everyone's benefit.

So of course I'd get the vaccine if those were the only considerations.
But surely that only works if we're isolated from the rest of the world. I know there's been lots of talk of helping poorer countries with their vaccine programmes, but really? We're expecting countries who struggle with persistent poverty, illness, war to prioritise this? It's just not going to happen is it? I just can't see it. And it really feels like we're just doing it to stop them giving it back to us.

And even within our own country, and even with our apparently very successful roll-out, I can't see this being sustainable. We already know that it's going to have to be repeated very frequently. Volunteers won't do it forever, halls etc can't be commandeered forever can they? The numbers are way bigger than the flu scheme.

So then we're back to risk assessment. I'm still not massively bothered by the possibility of side effects, but it does seem unwise to take it if I genuinely don't believe it will work or make things better.

In fact I'd go so far as to say that I'm concerned it's going to make things worse. If there was any way of having the young catch it in fairly quick succession, so from a super spreader, surely that would be safer. It would be transmitted in a smaller number of moves, thus less likely to mutate. As it is though we are forcing it though narrower channels of transmission (by social distancing etc), from person, to person, to person etc, giving it much more chance to change. Of course there is no way of doing this safely though. And then we have absolutely no influence when it lands abroad in much larger populations who often have no choice but to carry on, and there we are with another variant, with quite a possibility it will change enough to be a problem.

I honestly believe that the only sensible use of vaccines is for the most vulnerable, to do our best in an out of control situation.

I didn't know these things, I thought everyone would laugh at my ignorance but I didn't expect to be called a liar.

Okay. I believe you. But it is spectacularly unusual for someone not to have heard of maternity leave or private pensions, even if they don't qualify themselves. Likewise you never having heard of the flu vaccine.

I honestly have never come across anyone so ill informed and oblivious to really normal things that affect everyone.

Please listen to the people who did know stuff. The people who've studied it all their lives. The people who created the vaccines. Who know what they do for different levels of protection.

You having the vaccine does not make things worse for anyone around you or on the other side of the world, either now or in the future.
You not having the vaccine risks you now, your family now, and those around you now and in the future. You catching covid and passing it on risks lives. You having the vaccine does not. It's really simple.

@loulouljh

I agree with you. It is under trial still. That is a fact (someone will say it is now, no doubt). There are vulnerable people in other countries needing it more than we do.

Then we help them get it too. Or is your point that we experiment on poor people before taking the vaccine that is "under trial" ourselves? Cos I sincerely bloody hope that is not what you're saying.

God I am so sick of all these self-professed experts spouting this type of dangerous nonsense. Unless you're medically qualified and have a specialism in this field then YABU and no one wants to hear it.

@SEmyarse

Yes, ICU is grim, I'm terrified of the place. I'm actually really scared of this virus. But it feels like totally the wrong thing to get the vaccine if I feel it's just for personal protection.

Personal protection frees up a hospital bed for someone else.

Just have the damned thing!

@SEmyarse

But the experts tell us it mutates a lot faster.

And I admit to being confused about the flu jab programme. I hear it mentioned a lot, but I don't know anyone who's had it, so I assumed it was super rare.

Is it a really recent thing? My first husband was never offered it, and he was ventilator dependant (mobile via face mask), and he was in hospital loads for pneumonia so you'd have thought he'd be classed as vulnerable, but this was 15 years ago? (That he died I mean)

Children have had it for ages and over 65s. Plus vulnerable people. It's quite common

So none of your friends have ever been pregnant while working?

Perfect is the enemy of good enough.

This. I think you're massively over-thinking things TBH.

Hey OP.

I wonder if this might help? It's from the BBC Bitesize website and it's from one of the GCSE Science bits. It explains how vaccinations and herd immunity work etc.

www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/z8fkmsg/revision/1

I don't think you're stupid or anything like that. It's good to question and think things through. I've had the vaccine and I think it's a very good thing indeed. I feel lucky and grateful to have had it for all the reasons outlined above. I hope you do decide to have it but as you're not sure you're doing the right thing by asking questions and thinking about it.

@SEmyarse

I do agree that the objective of vaccinating the whole world is a great one, but it really is not possible.

Smallpox is all but eradicated.

Just sayin'

To clarify on the Hermes situation, to the person that thinks I don't know.

Yep, you're allowed days off whenever since you're self employed BUT you must get someone to cover your round otherwise you lose it. This has not been possible in the pandemic since myself and all the surrounding couriers have been doing up 300 drops a day (over double the usual) so obviously no time to cover each other now.

We have now won some rights in a tribunal, but it has taken over 2 years for Hermes to be pinned into actually awarding them. I hope to take a holiday very soon.

On the up side I've earnt very well this year!

Polio and smallpox were both eradicated in the UK many years before they were eradicated in most parts of the world. All down to vacinnation

Well, I've had other courier friends who've been pregnant while delivering, of course they don't get maternity anyway and usually return much quicker than I did.

Outside of work, most people I know either had kids much later than me or were much younger than me anyway, so it didn't come up for a long time.

You don't have to repeatedly vaccinate for smallpox

@SEmyarse

My (current ) husband is 57, my mum's in her 70s. I have 3 kids. Why have I never heard of any of these gettng a flu vaccine? Totally confused since everyone seems to think it's a thing.

It is a thing. If your children are young enough it was offered at school. Your mum will have been offered it too

But have you never watched TV? The news? Adverts even for pensions? Been in a doctor's surgery & seen the posters about flu vaccination?
If you are able to get into mumsnet you must have seen news websites.
This is just odd.

@SEmyarse

Well I'm sure I'd have had the flu vaccine if offered because I used to just blindly do the things that the authorities told me to, especially with the kids. (Still can't find anyone in my extended family who knows anything abuot regular flu jabs). I've given permission for all kid jabs, firstly because that's what you do, and secondly there's a very clear personal benefit to them AND society.

This is entirely different since it is of very marginal benefit/risk to myself, and I'm not clear it's a good idea for society in the long run.

OFGS!!!

@SEmyarse

Massive tangent, but yeah I do have a bit of a habit of things flying straight past me. I didn't know that maternity leave was a thing until I was on mums net and that was MILES after I'd had my kids.

Also only recently discovered the existence of pensions.

Wtaf? This has to be a piss take.

I’m only a few years younger than you OP and I have had a flu jag every year for nearly 20 years so it is definitely not a new thing.

I get it because I am asthmatic but as others have said my employer gives them to every member of staff. Last winter we got a voucher to get it at Boots, paid for by work, because we were not in the office where we would usually be vaccinated

There are signs everywhere and also TV adverts so it’s very strange that this has went over your head every year

You can even get them in my local Asda so all very accessible

If you’re self employed you can get maternity allowance

www.gov.uk/maternity-allowance/eligibility

@SEmyarse

Massive tangent, but yeah I do have a bit of a habit of things flying straight past me. I didn't know that maternity leave was a thing until I was on mums net and that was MILES after I'd had my kids.

Also only recently discovered the existence of pensions.

Ok. This is a wind up

I'm 28 and have been offered the jab due to having an autoimmune disease and a seriously weak immune system, I am overjoyed and grateful.

Nothing you have said makes sense.

This is entirely different since it is of very marginal benefit/risk to myself, and I'm not clear it's a good idea for society in the long run.

Here's the benefit. Some people CAN'T get vaccinated for various reasons, you getting the vaccine means that you are less likely to pass it on to one of these people and kill them. Imagine your mum couldn't get vaccinated, would you do it so she was less likely to catch it? Also, passing it on to less people means that there is less chance for it to mutate.

Imagine you/your family needed a heart bypass but oops, the beds are taken up with covid patients because their symptoms were severe where is they had the vaccine they could have been in bed at home.

My ex employer (supermarket retail) used to offer us the flu vaccine. The nurse essentially set up in the training room of one of the large stores and any employee from any store could go in during that day and get one. I guess they thought it worked out cheaper to pay for that one day and vaccinate 50+ people than potentially have loads of people off with the flu.

@SEmyarse
I don’t think I know, my DB works for Hermes and they introduced holiday pay in 2019 through their SE+ scheme; the first gig economy business to do so.
You are only obligated to cover your route Mon-Sat, Sunday is optional for extra income, you can use a substitute driver at any time. Unless you work for a unscrupulous sub contractor I can’t see how you’ve had no holidays in two years.

So many strange threads in here this evening....