To think they should pause meeting inside

[LastOrdersMaura]

In the last person to be overly concerned about the virus but the SAGE minutes show that there is something to be concerned about.
I think the economy can't take anymore and I really feel for all the businesses who are gearing up for opening on Monday. My friends cafe hasn't opened since October last year so she missed all the Christmas trade and has no outside seating. Her customer base are mostly elderly so unlikely to come out for takeaway. It would likely bankrupt her to hold off opening any longer.

The mixing in people's houses seems the least destructive part to hold off on. I know a lot of people have been looking forward to it but prolonged contact in a small space seems to be a major factor in transmission.
I'm looking forward to seeing others for a drink in their houses but I can see how it can go wrong. Most people aren't able to go for a meal in a restaurant every night of the week. I could however go to a different friends house every day, even multiple friends houses! Then if that friend does the same, that's a lot of indoor mixing. We have small children so the likelihood of them SD'ing is unlikely. Then there's older siblings at school, working parents, nursery etc leading to an increase in transmission. I feel restaurants are quite safe in comparison.
Those who want to will mix indoors anyway but it might make some think twice or not accept as many invitations. It has no impact on the economy. Yes it will have an impact on mental health but I think we're screwed on that part anyway. Anxiety is through the roof!
I'm fully expecting people to tell me to fuck off but this is the most sensible decision that BJ could make in light of the new variant. I'm not a lockdown lover, frankly as I haven't had a lockdown due to working out of the house throughout. I just want this to be over, properly over, not just kicking the can down the road.

@Quartz2208 lots of people have reported their workplaces to health and safety executive. There has not been one case of legal enforcement. Many of my friends have worked in unsafe workplaces all along. Most have caught it, one was in the hospital and one died. Well-off people working from home did not give a shit. There were so many people on here complaining about soft play being closed or other leisure places.
If there is another wave, poorer people will die again in much larger numbers. Especially as hospitality is opening and some people who have been furloughed are back at work.
It needs proper government enforcement in workplaces, money to make schools and hospitals safer and enforcement action on leisure industries and hospitality. But there will be none.

@picturesandpickles sorry I forgot you're clearly superior to the rest of us.

If the vaccine is touted as 97% effective that means there's a 3% chance of contracting covid and being seriously ill with it. Ergo those who are hospitalised with a more serious reaction to the virus and HAVE been vaccinated with fall into that 3%.

You're intent on being right though so as you were. This thread has descended into one or two posters thinking they're right no matter what. I'm out.

It also included people who would not be treated for other illnesses because the hospitals could not cope

I don’t think that’s correct. We won’t know for a long time, if ever, how many of those there are. Many doctors believe those deaths will be far more than those who died of covid. I fully anticipate some kind of cover up on those figures.

@Blossomtoes The figure from SAGE did include that. And yes we don't know even now how many have died because of that. But remember the total figure was without lockdowns. We have had a high death rate even though we have had three lockdowns.

[quote KurtWilde]@picturesandpickles sorry I forgot you're clearly superior to the rest of us.

If the vaccine is touted as 97% effective that means there's a 3% chance of contracting covid and being seriously ill with it. Ergo those who are hospitalised with a more serious reaction to the virus and HAVE been vaccinated with fall into that 3%.

You're intent on being right though so as you were. This thread has descended into one or two posters thinking they're right no matter what. I'm out. [/quote]
It isn't that I am 'intent on being right', but your figures are not meaningful.

As I posted on another thread just now SAGE's models show that if there is a surge, most deaths/hospitalisations will be in people who HAVE been vaxxed twitter.com/ChristabelCoops/status/1394286767440896003 - the 97% does not apply to this variant, we have no stats as this is a new variant in our population. You have misapplied that number.

This thread has so much misinformation on it, so many misunderstandings.

@Blossomtoes

It also included people who would not be treated for other illnesses because the hospitals could not cope

I don’t think that’s correct. We won’t know for a long time, if ever, how many of those there are. Many doctors believe those deaths will be far more than those who died of covid. I fully anticipate some kind of cover up on those figures.

You can't cover up excess deaths.

True you can't cover up excess deaths. But some excess deaths will not become apparent for a while if people have not received the medical treatment they should have.
The scientists seem to be using an efficacy rate for vaccines of between 80-90% when looking at the Indian variant. So either 1 or 2 people in 10 not being protected.

@castemary

True you can't cover up excess deaths. But some excess deaths will not become apparent for a while if people have not received the medical treatment they should have. The scientists seem to be using an efficacy rate for vaccines of between 80-90% when looking at the Indian variant. So either 1 or 2 people in 10 not being protected.

And that would be a lot of people if we have a big outbreak.

We need vaccinations PLUS low circulating cases to be OK.

How about people make choices based on their circumstances. We are vaccinated and there's no active cases in my town, only 29 in the county, all linked to a secondary school apparently. I'm pretty laid back consequently, if I lived on Bolton and had unvaccinated children I wouldn't be!

Literally everyone I know is meeting indoors and has been for ages.

You can't cover up excess deaths

Really? What makes you think that?

@Blossomtoes

You can't cover up excess deaths

Really? What makes you think that?

Not being a conspiracy theorist is probably the root reason.

Excess deaths are collated and published.

Are you imagining the government will massage the figures and involve a lot of doctors and registrars in the process?

Literally everyone I know is meeting indoors and has been for ages.

Those of us who have social lives and friends and not forgetting family who we actually like are. We've had 3 party invites, a wedding and a few other events in this last week.

I suspect some people who don't have all of that would like to be furloughed for another year while everyone else loses their businesses and jobs maybe?
Otherwise why so many 'lock down forever' threads?

I have followed the rules. That means I have met up with lots of people outdoors. I have lots of things planned for indoors but I am going to try and make them outdoors now.
Some of us recognise that it may be too risky to socialise indoors. That does not make us billy no mates.

@picturesandpickles you're fond of telling people they've misunderstood I notice, same as on the other thread where all you seem intent on doing is trawling out the same same old.

And no, I haven't misunderstood, thanks.

@Zenithbear

Literally everyone I know is meeting indoors and has been for ages.

Those of us who have social lives and friends and not forgetting family who we actually like are. We've had 3 party invites, a wedding and a few other events in this last week.

I suspect some people who don't have all of that would like to be furloughed for another year while everyone else loses their businesses and jobs maybe?
Otherwise why so many 'lock down forever' threads?

I missed my cousin's huge, beautiful wedding in NZ this weekend. I missed the hen holiday too, and meeting my newest baby relations.

We have three wedding invitations on the mantelpiece.

No idea if any of them will be able to go ahead now that the government has let the Indian variant get so well established all over the country. (but in two weeks we'll know the direction of travel.)

The facts are still the facts no matter what I want or what plans I have. (Had)

And I've never seen a "lockdown forever" thread on here.

No, I am not holding off meeting people inside my own house. I "broke the rules" during the recent lockdown by having a friend see me in my house once a fortnight... and that was to prevent me heading into a mental health crisis.
Not everyone has money to meet up in pubs/cafes. and not everyone can meet outside on a nice day. My friend has a condition which pretty much means she is a vampire (but without the blood sucking or immortality). We can't meet up outdoors on a nice day.

I have broken the rules because cases were so low where I lived. But now when we can meet inside I won't. I want to wait and see more about the Indian variant.

I would love to see two of my dearest friends but they both have long COVID and are not socialising at all for the time being.

Taking DD and BF into big city for bowling and something to eat, they are both 17. So lovely for them to actually be going out. I hope they have a great time!

Incidentally, is there a prize for the person that has missed the most social events?
It all seems quite competitive?

@Temp023 if you have not missed lots of social activities, you are a billy no mates who want lockdown forever. All just so everyone can be as miserable as you.

Obviously paraphrasing the rubbish on here.

@Temp023

Incidentally, is there a prize for the person that has missed the most social events? It all seems quite competitive?

They're probably the same people who said milk was 'non-essential' this time last year.

Absolutely not. I'm done now with over a year of restrictions that still continue. The government have failed us repeatedly with leaving borders wide open, the scenes at Heathrow airport today are crazy. If they can't protect us from the virus getting in when we've all given so much then f ck them.