To think they should pause meeting inside

[LastOrdersMaura]

In the last person to be overly concerned about the virus but the SAGE minutes show that there is something to be concerned about.
I think the economy can't take anymore and I really feel for all the businesses who are gearing up for opening on Monday. My friends cafe hasn't opened since October last year so she missed all the Christmas trade and has no outside seating. Her customer base are mostly elderly so unlikely to come out for takeaway. It would likely bankrupt her to hold off opening any longer.

The mixing in people's houses seems the least destructive part to hold off on. I know a lot of people have been looking forward to it but prolonged contact in a small space seems to be a major factor in transmission.
I'm looking forward to seeing others for a drink in their houses but I can see how it can go wrong. Most people aren't able to go for a meal in a restaurant every night of the week. I could however go to a different friends house every day, even multiple friends houses! Then if that friend does the same, that's a lot of indoor mixing. We have small children so the likelihood of them SD'ing is unlikely. Then there's older siblings at school, working parents, nursery etc leading to an increase in transmission. I feel restaurants are quite safe in comparison.
Those who want to will mix indoors anyway but it might make some think twice or not accept as many invitations. It has no impact on the economy. Yes it will have an impact on mental health but I think we're screwed on that part anyway. Anxiety is through the roof!
I'm fully expecting people to tell me to fuck off but this is the most sensible decision that BJ could make in light of the new variant. I'm not a lockdown lover, frankly as I haven't had a lockdown due to working out of the house throughout. I just want this to be over, properly over, not just kicking the can down the road.

[quote Geraldinethegiraffe]@picturesandpickles
I think oart of why those on lower incomes are more at risk of catching covid, even during lockdown, is because they are doing jobs that put them at risk (eg in supermarkets or supply chain roles, taking public transport to get around)
I don’t think putting more restrictions on their social time is the answer while the rich whi are at lower risk can emjoy life.
The best way to go is education to ensure people wash hands frequently, open windows, wear nasks etc - and for employers to keep investing in making work places safe, government to invest in making public transport safe (instead of all the farcical measures like stamp duty holidays, eat out to help out, etc that again though well intended help only a relatively well off minority)[/quote]
I agree work is a massive factor in the current level of risk - but any rise in risk is going to fall disproportionately on the same people, compounding the issue.

This issue won't be addressed by the current government, I don't think they will acknowledge the inequality aspect at all.

@Rainbowsandstorms

I totally agree with you OP it’s summer we can socialise outside. If it spreads and causes problems we’ll just end up with more social restrictions.

Summer?! Where are you living? It's been pissing down for weeks , my hearing is constantly on, my chunky knits are still being worn and we have a tornado warning!

People in Scotland who have already been vaccinated against coronavirus are being treated in hospital for the new Indian variant.

This was one of the driving factors for the Scottish Government deciding to keep Glasgow in a higher level of lockdown, the Record can reveal.

A source told how there are believed to be six patients – who have had the vaccine – currently being treated for complications suspected to be related to the variant which has been deadly in India.

The high-level source said: “At least one person has had two doses. It is part of the reason for the concern.”

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scots-hospital-indian-variant-despite-24113860

So we have identified just one person hospitalised who’s fully vaxxed? One?

I mean, we always knew the vaccines weren’t going to be 100% effective for everyone. An element of realism needed here.

Vaccines are not expected to save everyone who has them from being hospitalised, the following news and the numbers it mentions are not enough to serve as proof that the India variant has vaccine-busting properties. A more complicated analysis of numbers vs expected numbers is required for that. But it's being said to have influenced the Scottish government's approach.

thats only so far though.....if it starts to take off?

if it starts to take off?

Are we going to go through this for every new variant that emerges in the next 3-5 years? Because there will be plenty of them.

Hancock said today five single and one double vaccinated have been hospitalised in Bolton.

Back to the OP, quite few people think some aspects of the relaxation of the lockdown are premature:

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/16/ignore-lockdown-easing-to-curb-indian-covid-variant-health-experts-urge

Not Johnson, of course, as he hates to be the bearer of bad news.

[quote vera99]People in Scotland who have already been vaccinated against coronavirus are being treated in hospital for the new Indian variant.

This was one of the driving factors for the Scottish Government deciding to keep Glasgow in a higher level of lockdown, the Record can reveal.

A source told how there are believed to be six patients – who have had the vaccine – currently being treated for complications suspected to be related to the variant which has been deadly in India.

The high-level source said: “At least one person has had two doses. It is part of the reason for the concern.”

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scots-hospital-indian-variant-despite-24113860[/quote]
six people???

FFS!

ruining the economy and messing with the physical and mental well being of millions because six people are ill.

Madness.

@TheKeatingFive

if it starts to take off?

Are we going to go through this for every new variant that emerges in the next 3-5 years? Because there will be plenty of them.

are we? i dunno??

i'm just asking? not sure what will happen

We need more ONS data over the next two weeks to really identify how the vaccines are standing up to the Indian variant which is feted to become dominant. These low figures are statistically insignifInet but are probably being given out to underline be cautious message.

Who doesn;t believe in them? They have been factored into the figures that SAGE have modelled

How can they have been? Those figures are even more logic defying if that’s the case.

Over the next two weeks? In two weeks' time is half term - are they going to stop people's travel plans at the eleventh hour as they did in August and December 2020?

In England, the Road Map remains unaltered for the time being some Virus experts have written about what they will (and won't) be doing.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57069293

TheKeatingFive

So we have identified just one person hospitalised who’s fully vaxxed? One?

I mean, we always knew the vaccines weren’t going to be 100% effective for everyone. An element of realism needed here.“

This.
BBC News channel reporting right now that the India variant is being “driven” in the UK by vaccine refusers.

Well, you don’t say!

Tough, frankly. Every adult will have been offered a safe vaccine within the next 8 weeks (much sooner if the 1 million per day target is reached).
Pays your money, takes your choice. Oh, hang on, no, it’s free.

(Fully supported lockdowns, thought they should have been introduced sooner. Once every adult has been offered vaccines, there is no reason whatsoever to continue to destroy the economy and people’s lives).

@Blossomtoes

Who doesn;t believe in them? They have been factored into the figures that SAGE have modelled

How can they have been? Those figures are even more logic defying if that’s the case.

I don't understand why you can't accept/understand the maths they are using.

It is logical, they have stats on the likely impact the vaccines will have on transmission, hospitalisations, deaths. They know what impact the unvaccinated will have etc.

It’s not logical. Only someone living in an alternative universe could see the logic in it. The blind belief in a group of scientists whose speculations aren’t even unanimous is beyond belief. This is the SAGE that forecast 400,000 deaths at one point, ffs. They’re not taking any evidence into account.

@Geraldinethegiraffe Very true Agree with your posts. There is a lot of resentment coming from poorer communities ( i live in one) and i do wonder if that is affecting the vaccine take up.

So let me get this straight, six is a lot when it comes to ppl who have been vaccinated ending up in hospital with the Indian variant but when its six (there has actually been more) who have had adverse reactions to the vaccine THEN its fuck all and you are an anti vaxxer to even voice concerns Got it.

They forecast 400,000 deaths... IF we did nothing about it and didn’t lock down.

People are always having a go at experts when the disaster is averted somewhat because we followed their advice.

That’s silly.

It’s like saying the weather said it was raining but I didn’t get wet when I took my umbrella so they lie!!!!

Remember they also said 20,000 deaths would be a good outcome. We’re at 150,000 plus.

I think we have kind of lost touch with what happened in the UK over the last year?

SAGE recommended lockdown to avoid it spreading across the population, which the government did (eventually), which is why we haven't all had it. The fact we haven't had it doesn't mean SAGE were wrong to suggest we could if measures weren't taken.

This is like a conversation from Alice in Wonderland!

Exactly.

Thank you for your services to reality and common sense. I don't know where you get the energy to keep replying to and refuting this wall of nonsense and denial and illogic, but I appreciate your efforts to break through that wall.

@MercyBooth

So let me get this straight, six is a lot when it comes to ppl who have been vaccinated ending up in hospital with the Indian variant but when its six (there has actually been more) who have had adverse reactions to the vaccine THEN its fuck all and you are an anti vaxxer to even voice concerns Got it.

You've gotta love that logic eh. It's always the same. It's only a lot of it fits someone's agenda. I can't believe there are people on this thread banging on about 6 people as if it's half the bloody country.

amylou8 please read my OP, vaccine uptake is actually low, especially in my area. There are a multitude of reasons for this. Do we not owe these people protection?

No. We've reached the point in the pandemic where this needs to be about personal responsibility. Those who are old or medically vulnerable have all been offered the vaccine by now--and the majority of low-risk adults have been offered it as well. Those who refuse the vaccine need to understand that they are taking a small but real risk of severe disease and that it is not the rest of the country's responsibility to protect them.

I would not be complying with any further restrictions on private meetings in the UK from this point if I were living there.

Those who are vulnerable but unprotected aren’t all vaccine refusers as Hancock is crudely painting it.

There are those with immune disorders who can’t have the vaccine.

Those with immune disorders who can have the vaccine but it didn’t work.

Those housebound who can’t get to clinics and are still awaiting a vaccine.

Those with conditions not covered by the vaccine programme. Like asthmatics who take daily steroid inhalers but here kicked out of group 6 based on a flawed algorithm. Don’t have been given it by gps who went against the advise but many asthmatics under 40 have not had it yet. Other countries vaccinate them but oh no not us.

All of those above will have more protection once all adults are vaccinated.

Right now they’re vulnerable. Especially if they work or mix with the other age groups who aren’t vaccinated. 60% of adults vaccinated means nothing if you’re a 28 year old unvaccinated asthmatic in a workplace of other unvaccinated 20 and 30 somethings.

We could wait till we are all vaccinated to help the very most vulnerable or we could not.

We’ve come so far to fail now?

My worry is our eagerness to get back to normal lands us right back in another lockdown. None of us want that!