To think they should pause meeting inside

[LastOrdersMaura]

In the last person to be overly concerned about the virus but the SAGE minutes show that there is something to be concerned about.
I think the economy can't take anymore and I really feel for all the businesses who are gearing up for opening on Monday. My friends cafe hasn't opened since October last year so she missed all the Christmas trade and has no outside seating. Her customer base are mostly elderly so unlikely to come out for takeaway. It would likely bankrupt her to hold off opening any longer.

The mixing in people's houses seems the least destructive part to hold off on. I know a lot of people have been looking forward to it but prolonged contact in a small space seems to be a major factor in transmission.
I'm looking forward to seeing others for a drink in their houses but I can see how it can go wrong. Most people aren't able to go for a meal in a restaurant every night of the week. I could however go to a different friends house every day, even multiple friends houses! Then if that friend does the same, that's a lot of indoor mixing. We have small children so the likelihood of them SD'ing is unlikely. Then there's older siblings at school, working parents, nursery etc leading to an increase in transmission. I feel restaurants are quite safe in comparison.
Those who want to will mix indoors anyway but it might make some think twice or not accept as many invitations. It has no impact on the economy. Yes it will have an impact on mental health but I think we're screwed on that part anyway. Anxiety is through the roof!
I'm fully expecting people to tell me to fuck off but this is the most sensible decision that BJ could make in light of the new variant. I'm not a lockdown lover, frankly as I haven't had a lockdown due to working out of the house throughout. I just want this to be over, properly over, not just kicking the can down the road.

The quotes around experts was because there are various opinions but it's always the ones saying we should stay locked downforce our own good that appear on the media around this time.

But yeah keep on with your covid denial calling or maybe realise that a lot of us have been living with covid and have seen it first hand and don't understand the ramping up of fear that some people want us to feel.

The experts Whitty and vallance lied to you last year you must have forgot, from that date they are dirty government stooges.

Experts in this,. Wellthere is plenty who aren't part of government opinion, but you only believe a lieing corrupt governments scientists.

The variants are not being used to promote fear, they are a genuine reason for concern

Why? What’s concerning about a variant that causes a relatively mild illness and is rarely fatal?

@picturesandpickles

This thread is just awash with covid deniers.

This is the saddest aspect of this crisis, if it weren't for the bloody bastard idiotic covid deniers we may have reacted so much more effectively.

I am so sick of them. If I knew any in real life I would struggle to stay civil.

The variants are not a bloody invention!

I'm not a Covid denier. I totally believe that Covid exists and has posed a risk to people for the past 15+ months. I have had Covid. I am still suffering complications from it several months on. I will take medication for life as a result of my Covid infection. I'm fully vaccinated against the disease.

However, things ARE now different to the previous variants of concern .
The vaccine programme is well on its way.
All priority groups have been offered at least one vaccine. They will have their second relatively soon, if not already done so.
2/3 of our adults have had a vaccine.

The number of hospitalisation and deaths is currently low.

We have to start opening up.
Our economy needs us to.
We can't afford to bail out companies which will find if they are forced to remain closed.
People have simply had enough now.

@Blossomtoes

The variants are not a bloody invention

No, they’re not but the latest one isn’t causing an increase in hospital admissions or deaths so why worry about it?

We have already had 4 reported deaths and still don't know if these people were vaccinated. Not a great indication of what's to come when we still know and understand much about this variant, already marked a concern .

4 deaths out of how many people though?
We will never have zero Covid deaths long term. Covid will be here to stay.

Whilst those four deaths are very sad for the families involved, four deaths is an incredibly low number across a whole country.

@doubleshotespresso you sound almost gleeful in your reporting there.

I've just seen news that they're confident the vaccine WILL work against the India strain. So perhaps keep your doom and gloom in check for a bit.

We have already had 4 reported deaths and still don't know if these people were vaccinated

Yes we do. They weren't vaccinated.

@picturesandpickles tbf we could have 10 different opinions and we could all produce an expert to back is up on this opinion

[quote KurtWilde]@doubleshotespresso you sound almost gleeful in your reporting there.

I've just seen news that they're confident the vaccine WILL work against the India strain. So perhaps keep your doom and gloom in check for a bit. [/quote]
Don't see what was at all gleeful in my post, I'm merely stating we are not in the strongest position to be taking risks. I'm as keen as anybody on here to get some semblance of normal back, believe me but it's just also accepting reality at points of this roadmap that seems to be list on some here. I do agree with some posters above that the level of denial on this thread is truly worrying .

*lost on some people

The account I read said:
Five people who have had a single jab have been admitted to hospital with the India variant in Bolton, with one who had received both

[quote worriedatthemoment]@picturesandpickles tbf we could have 10 different opinions and we could all produce an expert to back is up on this opinion[/quote]
There is only one SAGE committee and the minutes were pretty clear.

You are casting doubt where there is none IMO. If you look at who has spoken out in the last two days about this variant, there is quite a consensus.

@picturesandpickles which makes it baffling that we are even proceeding with tomorrow's plans. Absolute lunacy

In my close circle I know around 8 people who have had covid all with various symptoms or none at all but tested positive.

People have also forgotten the experts like Chris Whitty who they are quick to quote when it suits their narrative, stressed regularly that for the majority of people it isn't a serious disease.

Now that the vulnerable and elderly have been vaccinated what is the rationale for keeping the whole country locked down when cases are still low and the deaths are not rising?

Why are we labelled covid deniers?

[quote doubleshotespresso]@picturesandpickles which makes it baffling that we are even proceeding with tomorrow's plans. Absolute lunacy [/quote]
I read that the way the minutes were published quickly suggests that SAGE wanted it known that they are worried. If the minutes had not been published, the press conference could have had a very different tone.

In particular I think allowing people in the most affected areas to stay overnight in each other's houses is pretty .

It isn't necessary to stop the entirety of step three - that would seem an over reaction - but to have made no change to anything, at all, even in the affected area seems really quite an odd choice and something of an under reaction. It appears the government is not following the data.

@Stuffin

In my close circle I know around 8 people who have had covid all with various symptoms or none at all but tested positive.

People have also forgotten the experts like Chris Whitty who they are quick to quote when it suits their narrative, stressed regularly that for the majority of people it isn't a serious disease.

Now that the vulnerable and elderly have been vaccinated what is the rationale for keeping the whole country locked down when cases are still low and the deaths are not rising?

Why are we labelled covid deniers?

Do you think the variants are being 'used' by the government, do you think the risks that SAGE outlines are invented? Do you think this is a fear project?

If not, you are probably not a covid denier.

I have to say that isnt how I read the SAGE minutes in that I dont think the data is clear yet - SAGE minutes are raising a realistic concern regarding the Indian Variant but one which there isnt at the moment enough data for - and that is the crux of the issue. Getting data could mean we pass the point of being able to return

And they have made some slight changes - testing and vaccinations. I do agree to stopping domestic household indoor contact in effected areas and continuing masks at schools in those areas as well

Do you think the variants are being 'used' by the government, do you think the risks that SAGE outlines are invented? Do you think this is a fear project?

I think there will always be variants but now the vulnerable are vaccinated I don't think we should all be forced to obey the restrictions for much longer.

And yes I think the media is hyping up the fear when there isn't sufficient evidence to say this will mean the hospitals are going to be overwhelmed. I guess that in your eyes makes me a covid denier but I won't lose any sleep over it

As had been said sage aren't the beall and end all , the economy is in place.

Imagine telling all these pubs /restaurants they now have to through stock away, it's deceitful, how many time are we told.doong it for greator good

SAGE always couch it but this it is therefore highly likely that this variant is more transmissable than B.1.1.7 (high confidence), and it is a realistic possibility that it is as much as 50% more transmissible is actually fairly strong for their minutes. Of course it may turn out differently - but this is not a 50/50 statement, they are clearly leaning one way.

Not sure it would be necessary to tell pubs etc they should close, the bit I am worried about is in people's private homes - most transmission is likely to happen there.

You can pause anything you like; in fact, you can stay at home for the rest of the year if you want to but don't expect others to do it. Seriously 7 died from/with covid yesterday - only 7. There were 1000 in hospital with covid in the whole country - why on earth would we shut down life for that?

Get real - time to emerge and live again. Covid is going nowhere

[quote doubleshotespresso]@picturesandpickles which makes it baffling that we are even proceeding with tomorrow's plans. Absolute lunacy [/quote]
Lunacy to keep businesses shut, people off work, continue to drive debt through the roof, mental health issues because of a virus that affects average age 82 and most over 50 are now vaccinated!

YOu do you and let some of us live - no more dictatorship fuel by fear.

@rookiemere

From OP - "amylou8 please read my OP, vaccine uptake is actually low, especially in my area. There are a multitude of reasons for this. Do we not owe these people protection?"

I don't owe anyone who has been offered the vaccine and refuses to take it a single thing although I do understand the logic of not fully opening up until all adults have been offered the vaccine.

I agree. If people have been offered the vaccine and won't take it then tough. Not going to restrict activity anymore for people who won't get vaccinated. It's their problem now - the evidence that vaccines work is there to see